Seems to be getting worse, getting worried

[Shan_Evolved]

Angel Update:

TLDR; Angels died slowly in the same fashion, but the tetras are perfectly healthy and still eating aggressively every day.

So I just wanted to update you guys on my unfortunate circumstance. The first few days (5 days) the angels were doing great. Eating aggressively and enjoying their daily meals twice a day. Usually a mix of cobalt flakes, sera granules, and occasionally some blood worms hikari.

I also did 30% WC every other day to keep it minimum as well as clean up poop once a day.

After less than a week they started to ignore foods and swim slowly. I think not even 2 days later I had the first of four die.

I immediately dosed PP for the whole tank (3 hr treatment having to redose once to return color back to purple).

2 days after that another died, and then another, and a few days later my last just died last week.

Devastated. But also puzzled because my glowlight tetras are still absolutely running strong. My water parameters were checked every day and were 0, 0, <5pmm (ammo, no2, no3) and PH was stable 7.6.

I don't get why my angels died in the same way that my discus did.

I could use some advice on how to go further with this. ultimately my goal is to try discus again but how am I supposed to when something absolutely funky is going on

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Shan, sorry to hear you are still have trouble. A suggestion is to do a careful walk-thru of all items used both in your tank and for doing your water changes. Consider all hoses, pumps, foam and any items which may not be fish safe. All hoses and water change bins should be potable water safe. All pumps and filters marked specificity for aquarium use. Please check all items used during your routine.
Pat

[jeep]

Part of the process of elimination is to take a look at what others are experiencing in your area. You've talked with other fish keepers and even discus keepers and they are not experiencing the same issues you are. You've taken so many steps to figure this out without success, but I still can't help but think there is something contained within your system that is the cause. You've really put your heart into this. I wish we could figure it out...

[Shan_Evolved]

As my tetras are still alive I really am confused.

It's Ramadan so Im taking it slowly and just enjoying looking at my itty bitty tetras. However my next steps is to get rid of both my pumps, and aging barrel, and replace it with a brute bin from the home depot. Should I wash this bin with bleach water mix before use?

Another interesting tid bit - I put my driftwood back in for the tetras and its been a couple of weeks and I seem to have a mixture of black beard algae as well as a weird ghostly wavy algae of some sort.

Just want to make sure none of this could be harmful to my tetras

[Shan_Evolved]

Hi guys, wanted to update on what's happening next.

TLDR; Bringing out the big guns after more trial and error. Getting a microscope to use for angelfish white poop.

Longer Version-

So I took out the barrel, the pond pump, as well as eliminated all sources of food except tetra flakes and sera flakes.

I had the glolight tetras for a few weeks by themselves, everyday they would eat anxiously. I had one succumb to a swim bladder issue of some sort, and recently another is showing same symptoms.

But anyways, I purchased 8 juvenile angelfish about a week ago from a LPS and with the elimination of all these variables I was hoping they would be okay.


Unfortunately same thing started happening to them this weekend. They ate aggressively for the first 2-3 days, but slowly I noticed one acting funny, and then a day later WHITE POOP!

Now the whole batch isn't eating and showing white poop here and there.

I've been a serious loss and feel like I've just burned so much money replacing old equipment that isn't even the problem.

I talked with Cary before trying any sort of medication and he thinks we're shooting in the dark without actually using a microscope to identify what the hell is going on.

Being fed up, I'm going with this route. I should have my microscope soon.

Currently my new juvie angels are still alive. As soon as my microscope gets in I am going to try and get a fresh white poop sample and put it under the microscope.

As I am new to this I am doing all the research I can on identifying what it is I would be looking for. The microscope I'm getting isn't a serious one (less than 200 usd) but I'm hoping its enough to help figure out what really is going on

[fljones3]

Shan, are you still using the same sponges as when you had the discus? It's a long shot in the dark and I know you clean them, but if they are - I would replace them completely.
That's the only thing I can think of that the sponges are harboring something.

[Shan_Evolved]

I could do that to the sponges but for now im investigating this.


From a fresh batch of white angelfish poop I found this -

At 40x


at 100x


at 400x


I am scouring the web to figure out what this is

[fljones3]

If they are in the sponges (whatever they are), that might be why the angel/discus got infected.
Someone who know microorganisms will have to weigh in with this.

[LizStreithorst]

They look like roundworms to me. That scope is good enough if you you can spot what you see right away. I know that they don't look like hex organisms. Those spin, These swim. I'm not that good. Surely someone more well educated in images of parasites will post and either confirm my diagnosis or say I'm wong.

I would treat with the sponge in the tank. Levasole according to what the label suggests.

[Tkuilderd]

The protozoa are most likely natural and not parasitic. The structures that are not moving in these videos are capillaria eggs (roundworms).

this is a capillaria egg from your video. there are other eggs present.
20200531_110607.jpg

This is a photo from my microscope showing an egg.
20200326_203710.jpg

and this is a video of a capillaria worm taken from a stool sample of 1 of my new arrivals.

https://youtu.be/kjspxPLVKb4


I hope this helps someone in the future.

Tammy

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks guys. Cary also thinks its capillaria and I have ordered some levamisole to treat them soon. In the meantime I am using some wormer+ (flubendazole 48hr treatment).

Come to think of it, I never tried levamisole. I use metro, PP treatment, wormer+, salt treatment, but not levamisole.


Is this link and instruction still relevant?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...laria-The-Cure

P.S. Was my mistake not treating the fish with levamisole flakes when they first arrived?

[Tkuilderd]

Thanks guys. Cary also thinks its capillaria and I have ordered some levamisole to treat them soon. In the meantime I am using some wormer+ (flubendazole 48hr treatment).

Come to think of it, I never tried levamisole. I use metro, PP treatment, wormer+, salt treatment, but not levamisole.


Is this link and instruction still relevant?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...laria-The-Cure

P.S. Was my mistake not treating the fish with levamisole flakes when they first arrived?

You are going to need to give them a weeks break after the wormer+. They have already been overmedicated. Just clean water for 7 days before the levamisole treatment.

Tammy

[Shan_Evolved]

Okay gotcha. Thanks guys.

Something on my mind I had a hard time wrapping around -

On the package it says to only use 1mg of powder per 100g of tank water. So for my 55 I naturally used a gram scale to measure out 0.5mg. But that's so little. Are we sure this is correct? It's such a tiny amount

[Tkuilderd]

Okay gotcha. Thanks guys.


Something on my mind I had a hard time wrapping around -

On the package it says to only use 1mg of powder per 100g of tank water. So for my 55 I naturally used a gram scale to measure out 0.5mg. But that's so little. Are we sure this is correct? It's such a tiny amount

I am not sure on the mg dosage since I converted my to tsp a long time ago so just follow the instructions.. it doesnt take much.
When we treat for roundworm, we always cover the tank to keep light out as levamisole is light sensitive. We also dose epsom salt to help the fish pass the worms.
Treatment is 24 hours, at which time you can run tank water into a holding tank and remove the fish from the tank. Wipe all surfaces and vacuum the bottom well. We generally replace filter material, of course this means extra water changes until the cycle is established.
Once this is finished the fish can be returned to the tank. You need to repeat the medication in 5 days and again 13 days from the first treatment. This will ensure that you have killed any worms that hatch in that time. There is no medication that will kill the eggs.

Tammy

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you so much. Will update with any changes