KH and GH differences

[Skjohn98]

My tank just cycled and I knew my water was on the hard side (well water), the first time I tested the water the at7.8 PH, GH214.8, KH 125.3, when I changed about half the water after the cycle I used 50% straight well water thru a 5 micron filter and half thru the same filter but also thru my water softener. The reading after the water change showed a PH of 7.6 GH161.1 and KH 17.9 my question what does the difference mean to keeping the discus? Should I go 100% water thru the softener.
Any help would be appreciated
I plan to do another 50% water change tomorrow and one more 50% change before getting discus

[jeep]

Best explained here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...-you-have-time!!

[14Discus]

My well water is high w GH and KH as well. My PH is 7.8 ish. I do mix my aging water in my Brut garbage cans (w heater and airstone) for WCs at a 1 part tap to 4 parts RO. This consistently produces water w a KH of 4-8 with GH of 3-6 degrees (dKH and dGH). If I remember correctly, 1 degree is equal abt 17 ppm. While Discus like these numbers, it is imperative to maintain, imho, a fairly safe low level of KH so as to have water buffering preventing PH crashes. With youngsters, I’ve read that a slightly higher GH is important for growth. Mine are all young or mature adults......needing minimal GH. Your first GH of 214 would convert to abt 13 dGH which is high, but not critical. Your first KH of 125 would pan out to abt 7 dKH which is ok. Now.....your second reading of 161 GH pans out to be abt 9 dGH which is ok, BUT your second KH reading of 17.9 converts to abt 1 dKH which, imho, is too low and might facilitate PH issues. To be safe, one must have decent buffering (KH) in order to avoid PH swings or crashes. Adding crushed coral in a media bag to your filtration might help raise the KH some making your water pretty good. I’d suggest you make this as simple as possible by mixing water types consistently and not relying on sock work and softeners (can also have levels of sodium issues). Do you have RO capabilities? Or, depending on your particular Discus endeavors, you could even leave the water as it was in the beginning. It’s hard, but.....I believe.....acceptable. I’m hoping others add to and/or confirm or correct my data/suggestions. Incidentally.....RO units have really come down in price and installed with a booster motor will provide more than enough RO for your purposes. Stability is the key. Mixing RO w tap is easy.....just do some test ratios measured after aging. Btw....I’ve never trusted softeners regarding my fish.

Lastly....you are wise to work all this out prior to getting your Discus. Do, though, be patient and truly be able to provide consistently stable water however you decide to go. Good luck and keep us posted.

[LizStreithorst]

Good post, Bill. I'm glad you stressed the fact that a water softener often does more harm than good. For one thing, the Sodium makes the TDS go sky high (at least to my limited understanding). I have never ever heard a good thing about using one with fish.

[14Discus]

Thanks Liz. Having someone like yourself approve my post makes me feel better. I’d never want to error or mislead another fish fancier. I do tend to get carried away w the biology of it all having been a biology teacher for 33 years and fish nut for over 50 years.

[Skjohn98]

Bill, Liz and Brian thank you for the response.
I won’t get any discus until I have this settled out, I do have an old 4 stage Ro/Di unit from my reef tank days I can use but need to get new filters for it.
I am not sure which filter set up to use on it. The old unit had a 5 micron sediment filter, a 5 micron carbon block, DI resin and a 75 gpd RO membrane. What would the suggested set up be? I don’t not have a booster pump but it is a possibility. Bill you mentioned RO but I noted you did not mention DI.
Any suggestions

[14Discus]

Mine doesn’t have DI. Mine has a 24” 5 micron sediment fltr, a 24” carbon brickette fltr, 18” membrane, and a 6” post carbon fltr with a booster pump. I can get as much as 90 or so gallons of RO per day.....more if I push it beyond a normal day. My original normal house RO was woefully slow and was good for 20ish gallons a day at best. When I got back into the tropicals, I had to upgrade the system (larger 10g tank added to the 3g, double sized sediment and carbon tubes, and a larger membrane along w the booster pump). Mine has a 3g tank linked to a 10g tank, so each regeneration cycle makes abt 13g of RO water and the cycle takes 1.5-2.0 hours to complete from empty. I don’t know your tank size, but 75g a day w your old unit may do the trick. If I ever add a huge tank (in my dreams) to the 75g, 60g, and 20g, I might have to even upgrade further what I have. WCs take lots of water and I won’t gamble on straight tap water, but prefer to religiously do my 1:4 mixture into my multiple aging cans. That way, my water parameters remain constant and my fish are wagg’n their tails. Here is where my Koi save me time bc they are much more water tolerant than the goofy Discus. I have a 600g pond in the basement w two outside ponds of a 400g dumping into my 6,000g main pond. The koi come inside in the winters.....not willing to risk winter kill w my awesome koi......some of which I’ve had for twenty years and are in the 8-10 lb range. Sorry to deviate.....

[Skjohn98]

Bill, could you please tell me where you get your filters and exactly which ones you have so I can get what I need ordered.

[14Discus]

John, I’d love to help you, but I had a local water man actually install the unit. I can, however, tell you it’s called the H2RO series DB with an extra big storage tank and a CDP8800 booster pump by Aquatec. Btw....I did also install a pressure gauge so as to monitor it better. Also....the ten gallon tank is inside the inverted garbage can w the 3 gallon on top. Both are joined to work together. I’m sure that most all units will do the work for you just fine.
F0793C9F-EA85-4690-8322-FEF4FB581A88.jpg

[Skjohn98]

Thank you Bill��

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi John, you might want to start with your regular well water prior to messing with it. I agree that using a water softener with fish can lead to issues. My well water is ph 8.2, kH and gH run about the same at 160 or so and a TDS of 200-220 depending on the season. I have both domestics and wilds on this water plus my black rams are breeding in it successfully.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

That's amazing Pat. My waters numbers suggest that it's great for eggs hatching but it's not. As soon as Dottie feels better she's going to send me her unit but I'm temped to buy one instead. I run a 5 micron sediment filter and two carbon blocks before the membrane. I've been able to add my waste back to the aged tap I use for growing and mature fish. It worked well.I've been temped to make my own but I can buy a three stage for like $90. and add the extra carbon block to it. Extra canisters are cheap and so are the carbon blocks.

Bill, I know that when I give advice I speak with a strong voice. None of you know how I question myself about how sure I am before I post.

[14Discus]

Liz,

No. Except for my adding a pressure gauge, it was installed by my water guy who, btw, is also into Discus. In the near future, I will post pics of my custom acrylic sumps which were designed by me, but built by a pro. These will have enhanced Mayrix chambers as well as a nitrogen reactor w Denitrate as the medium w a 30g flow rate. Along with my pathos and algae scrubbers in the sump, I should be good to go in reducing NO3 levels. I’m not happy unless levels are below 10.

[Skjohn98]

I just tested my water before the water softener but after a 5 micron sediment filter
PH 7.6
Ammonia. 0
Nitrite. 0
Nitrate. 0
KH. 8. 143.2
GH. 11. 196.9
TDS. 154
This is water out of the tap
I plan on setting up a RO unit and using 50% Ro water and 50% straight tap water I will get about 40 gallons of the mix ready and change some of the tank water

[14Discus]

That’s pretty good overall, but please retake measurements of that same water after a 24 hour aging w an airstone to confirm the steadiness of the results. This is just to be ultra careful.......I do it as well weekly just in case. My fish are worth the effort. After all.....they’re fish from Kenny’s