Dual Heater Setup Question

[coralbandit]

I guess I still don't understand why the controller doesn't override the heater thermostats when they hit 87 and try to take them up to 90 degrees, which is the set point of the controller.

The thermostat on the heater is the equivalent a on & off switch . When the water gets to what the heaters thermostat setting is [87 in your case ] it shuts off..
The controller then is moot .It is the same as having your heater plugged in but not turned on .
Nothing can override the main on & off switch of the heater .
The thermostat has to be set higher then the controller for the controller to be able to turn it on or it is just like send electricity to light that is not turned on ..

[LizStreithorst]

That's something I should have figured out myself. I believed that a heater controller was a "fail safe". It most certainly is not. I'm glad that I never splurged on one for nothing.

[Oxboy]

That's something I should have figured out myself. I believed that a heater controller was a "fail safe". It most certainly is not. I'm glad that I never splurged on one for nothing.

Are you saying you're not a fan of controllers as overheat insurance?

[danotaylor]

That's something I should have figured out myself. I believed that a heater controller was a "fail safe". It most certainly is not. I'm glad that I never splurged on one for nothing.

The vulnerability of a heater is thermostat failure so the controller is still a fail safe Liz because the temperature sensor of the controller is separate to the heaters thermoatat. When the heater is turned all the way up the controller still shuts off power to the heater when the temp sensor on the controller reaches it's set point, therefore providing a fail safe for your tank.

[14Discus]

The vulnerability of a heater is thermostat failure so the controller is still a fail safe Liz because the temperature sensor of the controller is separate to the heaters thermoatat. When the heater is turned all the way up the controller still shuts off power to the heater when the temp sensor on the controller reaches it's set point, therefore providing a fail safe for your tank.

+1

[14Discus]

Ok.......I’ll try to chart this for simplicity. I’m only trying to convey my reasons for using a Controller as Insurance. Hope this helps.

79B2D9D5-5615-4419-B0CA-B65259E69C51.jpg

A and B are what I do. C is what some others do and I think it’s too risky....just my thoughts.

[LizStreithorst]

I think it's safer to use 2 undersized heaters. That way if one fails either to go off or turn on you can feel it with your hand when you do daily WC. I used to always have extra heaters on hand but not that's not the case with me today. Jehmco is just a phone call away and the fish won't suffer any harm while I wait for them to come in. In an emergency I could always go to my LPS for one if I had to.

[LizStreithorst]

I understand that, Bill. I still think it's safer to use 2 undersized heaters. That way if one fails either to go off or turn on you can feel it with your hand when you do daily WC. I used to always have extra heaters on hand but not that's not the case with me today. Jehmco is just a phone call away and the fish won't suffer any harm while I wait for them to come in. In an emergency I could always go to my LPS for one if I had to.

[Oxboy]

Another dumb question for those who have experienced heaters stuck in overheat and/or have cooked their fish:

Say max limit a heater can be set for is 95 degrees and you are not using a controller. If the heater malfunctions and is stuck in 'on', can it go past the 95 upper limit (assuming the wattage, tank conditions, time allowance etc would permit it)? Or will the heater still react to the 95 limit and shut everything down at 95?

I ask because my ebo jager max limit is 93 degrees. If it sticks in the 'on' position, but tops out at 93, no big danger for discus to sit in 93 for a while or even days.

[14Discus]

Not sure abt that. Never checked it out.

[LizStreithorst]

If the heater is oversized for the tank then yes, the temp will go higher.

[Oxboy]

What if you are more worried about temps too low than too hot? Could you have 2 heaters -- one plugged into a controller and one not. The non-controller heater does all the lifting day in and day out. The heater attached to the controller is dormant until the temp drops to 80 (a scenario in which the main heater conks out). At the 80 degree min, the backup/dormant heater kicks on and returns the tank temps to 86 or whatever. Is there any way to make this work?

[14Discus]

Interesting........and VERY thought provoking. This is just as important as my concerns for overheating. Underheating is a Discus threat as well.

If I were to do this, I’d simply plug in an additional regular heater set to 81. It would remain plugged in and ready/idle, but off (no heating)while the main heater worked bc the temp was above the 81. When the main heater set to say 85 failed and the temp dropped to 80, the spare heater would come on to provide heat to 81. Honestly, this idea merit in that one would like to insure that the tank not get too high OR too low. Since all my heaters are digital, this is a distinct possibility.

In my particular case, I’d set the backup (too low a temp) heater to 84. It would remain on/idle, but not powering the additional heater bc all my main heaters are set to 87 w the controller protecting overheating. This higher temp of 86 would (when working normally) cause my backup too low heater to remain idle until such time when the tank temp dropped to 83 after the main heaters had failed. Then the backup too low heater would heat the tank to 84. I like this......should have thought abt this sooner. I know such heater insurance seems silly and overkillish.......that is.....until my fish get sick from too cold a temp which, in its own right, is just as important as protecting temps from getting too high. Good call Oxboy.. I’ll gladly put an extra heater in each tank to accomplish this........the cost of three more heaters vs cost of replacing 8 or 9 of Kenny’s fish. Duh......no brainer. Besides, I already have spare digital heaters stored away for catastrophes. Btw....this is another reason why I so like my Finnex HMO and HMX Heaters.

Til now, I’ve been relying on my low temp audible water alarms. They are great if one is home, but do no good if one is away for the day. Now I can have both extremes covered even if I’m away..like it

[Oxboy]

Interesting........and VERY thought provoking. This is just as important as my concerns for overheating. Underheating is a Discus threat as well.

If I were to do this, I’d simply plug in an additional regular heater set to 81. It would remain plugged in and ready/idle, but off (no heating)while the main heater worked bc the temp was above the 81. When the main heater set to say 85 failed and the temp dropped to 80, the spare heater would come on to provide heat to 81. Honestly, this idea merit in that one would like to insure that the tank not get too high OR too low. Since all my heaters are digital, this is a distinct possibility.

In my particular case, I’d set the backup (too low a temp) heater to 84. It would remain on/idle, but not powering the additional heater bc all my main heaters are set to 87 w the controller protecting overheating. This higher temp of 86 would (when working normally) cause my backup too low heater to remain idle until such time when the tank temp dropped to 83 after the main heaters had failed. Then the backup too low heater would heat the tank to 84. I like this......should have thought abt this sooner. I know such heater insurance seems silly and overkillish.......that is.....until my fish get sick from too cold a temp which, in its own right, is just as important as protecting temps from getting too high. Good call Oxboy.. I’ll gladly put an extra heater in each tank to accomplish this........the cost of three more heaters vs cost of replacing 8 or 9 of Kenny’s fish. Duh......no brainer. Besides, I already have spare digital heaters stored away for catastrophes. Btw....this is another reason why I so like my Finnex HMO and HMX Heaters.

Til now, I’ve been relying on my low temp audible water alarms. They are great if one is home, but do no good if one is away for the day. Now I can have both extremes covered even if I’m away..like it

Would you plug the idle backup heater into a controller or just the power strip?

Per due diligence, I guess once a month you would want to remove the idle backup heater and put it in a bucket of cold water to make sure it kicks on and still works.

[14Discus]

I’d plug it in the regular wall outlet and figure it’s temporary until I notice the temp difference. Chances are it will work for a day at most “un insured”. I c o u l d get another Controller just for it, but prob would not.