One Discus Going Dark

[AquaticNerd]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
   
   One of the six is hiding in the back corner of the tank and turning dark. The behavior varies - during dark during the day, but as soon as food is introduced he colors back up for ahile and then goes back to hiding. Just started happening about 4 days ago. When I first got him, he was beautifully colored and spawned like crazy. You can see him in this post. In the second photo, he's the discus in the foreground (female behind him). Now it looks like he's turned into the one getting bullied by the others. When he goes to eat, he gets chased away by the others and goes back into hiding. See images below of him now. Note that he's still eating.
   
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
   
   Darkening and hiding most of the time.
   
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
   
   None at this time.
   
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
   
   48x21x20, 36 gallon sump. About 120-ish gallons of water volume. No other fix besides the 6 discus.
   
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
   
   35%, 3X weekly
   
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
   
   Cycled since Nov. 12, 2019. Fish added November 26. About 1" of PFS on the bottom.
   
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
   
   Yes, water is aged at least 12 hours before water change. The pH swing is from 8.0 out of tap to 7.8 after 24 hours. I just like to be safe.
   
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
   
   Seachem Prime. Added to the aging container 10 minutes before water change. Enough to treat the entire container, plus a little. The Brute trash can holds about 40 gallons, so I add about 45-50mL of Prime.
   
9. Parameters and water source:
   
   Temp: 83-84F
   pH: 7.8
   Ammonia: 0
   Nitrite: 0
   Nitrate: 5-10 ppm
   (See included image of test results)
   
   Municipal water: 100%
   
10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
    
    Pothos added 2 months ago, well before this all started to control some nitrates in between the days with water changes.
    
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
    
    Al's FDBW for the majority of the diet, two cubes for the group morning and night - some treats such as frozen bloodworm and brine shrimp. I was about to start the process of introducing other dry foods (flake, pellet) but didn't want to fast them for a few days in this case.
    
12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
    
    I don't really know what's causing the darkening - I don't want to stress him out any more by moving him to a hospital tank, but I can do that if absolutely necessary. I have all the equipment.
    
    My only thought is that he's now getting bullied a lot more because there's another pair in the tank and they're a lot more protective of their clutch. I really don't want to have to separate the group if I can help it.
    
    This was the group on January 20th (note the discus in question is in the left - with the female below showing a few bars):
    
    
    This is him in the background, with his female mate in the foreground (idk does she also look sort of dark?):
    
    
    This is the best image I can get of him, as he doesn't move much and stays in that corner:
    
    
    Current pair spawned right in the middle of the tank last night, on the overflow (they were using the wood):
    
    
    Test Results:
    

[jeep]

By what you said, my first guess is that it may be being bullied, especially since there is active spawning in the tank. It's happened in my tank as well.

The only other thing I could think of it to maybe up the water changes and see if there's any change...

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks Brian!

Those were my thoughts as well, he does seem to get bullied by the ones spawning quite frequently so that's where my mind is at the moment. I'm already ahead of you on the water change part - I started increasing frequency to 35% daily this past Sunday, so I'm hoping that might help things along. I was getting close to adding in dither fish, but didn't want to do so without consulting here first. The plan was that dither fish might help reduce the aggression on that one particular fish, but didn't want to do it if he is actually sick.

Any thoughts on that? My inclination is to halt that process until I see improvement, but I also don't want to lose the fella just because he's bullied.

[Second Hand Pat]

By what you said, my first guess is that it may be being bullied, especially since there is active spawning in the tank. It's happened in my tank as well.

The only other thing I could think of it to maybe up the water changes and see if there's any change...

I am agreeing with Brian on the bullying. The dark background does not help when the fish is next to it. It will want to blend it.
Pat

[jeep]

That may help spread aggression, but I'd think it would be a short term solution. Since this only started recently, I think I'd let it play out for a few days. It could be possible that he has interest in the female. Who knows, you may have no choice but to move them into their own tank and become a breeder of discus, lol...

[RogueDiscus]

I like the possible bullying, and up the water changes ideas also. I'm wondering what your sand cleaning routine is, too. If it's not bullying, then one starts to be concerned that it's the first to show signs of other issues.

Nice group, though!

[AquaticNerd]

Pat - Thank you for your input. The tank came with the glass blacked out from the factory. I typically enjoy black backgrounds as it helps hide gear, but in this case, it's working in the fish's favor.

Brian - I'd love to separate them out into their own aquarium to breed them, but I'm currently not geared up enough to handle large amounts of fry nor housing a breeding pair. Plus, I don't think the wife would approve of me filling the house with tanks!

Steve - Sand gets cleaned during water changes, so it gets cleaned up every 2-ish days (typically). I feel like I'm pretty thorough when I go to clean it. Right now it gets a cleaning every day now that I've upped the WC schedule. The glass also gets a wipe from the mag-float during water changes to keep the glass clean and free of debris. That's my worry too and why I posted here after he didn't change after a couple of days. I sure hope it's not the case of illness, but if so I've at least got metro on hand.

[AquaticNerd]

Okay, so the dark one was eating this morning and is now refusing to eat.

Do I let him continue in the tank or move him to a hospital tank for observation?

[Shan_Evolved]

Probably not a big deal and a typo but you mentioned 50ml of prime for 40 gals. That's a lot!

Other than that I hope symptoms don't get worse like they did with me. Come on little fishy hang in there

[AquaticNerd]

Yes thank you! That should read 4-5mL. Yikes!

Little update. He's progressed worse overnight. Whereas last night he was swimming upright just fine, now he's struggling to do so. Either lays on the substrate or lists to one side and looks like he's struggling to stay up-right. He's being moved to a hospital tank, and I'm raising up the temp to 88F. Anyone have any ideas what to treat otherwise?

Here's what he looks like now.

[Shan_Evolved]

Damn man im really sorry. What terrifies me is that this started happening only 4 days ago. :/

Guys and girls with knowledge, please help!

[AquaticNerd]

Yeah, it's pretty disheartening.

The female mate that he spawns with is also getting dark now too. I'm considering moving her to the hospital tank with him, but really could use some input on what to do medication wise. I'm thinking I'll probably start metro soon if I don't hear much otherwise. The male looks emaciated so I might start metro at 400mg/10gallons, so 1600mg for my 40B quarantine system, 2x/day with both fish and see if they improve.

[AquaticNerd]

The male is definitely not doing well. He's in the hospital tank with the female because they are both exhibiting the same symptoms with varying severity. All other fish seem to be doing fine.

The male is laying on the bottom and not really swimming at all. He wedges himself between the glass and sponge filter to hold himself up. The female is dark, but otherwise eating and swimming normally. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[jeep]

If it's in the hospital tank, try adding about 4 TBS salt per 10g. Just be aware that discus that are alone are not heavy eaters so feel sparingly.

Now that it's isolated keep an eye on the feces. Even if it's not eating, hex will make it shed the stomach lining and give the appearance of white stringy feces.

Do you notice any abrasions at all? No bloating, heavy breathing? etc..

[AquaticNerd]

Hi Brian,

I added both the male and female together because she started looking acting similar. She was very colorful yesterday and this morning, super dark like the male started out. The only abrasions I see on the male are scraped from being bullied (i.e. being nipped by other fish). The fins are a little torn, but I'm pretty sure that was due to being moved to the hospital tank. No bloating, but both fish's bellies look to be sunken in (onset of internal parasites from being bullied)?

Since they're both in there and add 4TBS salt, I assume that I replace the salt after a water change. I'm planning on continuing with large water changes in the hospital tank and display.

Eyes are peeled. I feel so ashamed that I didn't do anything sooner. I watch these fish at least an hour every day and they all were fine