Need someone to walk me thru this - tried on my own and am failing.....

[diverjoe]

Disease Questionnaire For FB

1. Please explain the problems with your Discus.
Cannot get weight back on her. Had problems getting her to eat from beginning and cannot seem to get her over the hump. 5-6” Blue Turq

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills).
Was really dark, better color-wise now, emaciated, Still not eating as much, have not seen poop, (though watching) gills inflated or just skinny, small white flat “tags” hanging off operlcant (sp?) 3 others in tank (bought together) doing GREAT! Fin rot that seems to have stopped, but hasn’t really grown back either

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Early on treated PP in whole tank as per dosages that I saw more reputable folks saying was the right amount 2x, Course of API General Cure a bit later, got tank to eat about 50 ¼” cubes of Gabe’s recipe of Beefheart laced with Seachem Met and the other stuff that helps to keep it bound, tried 2nd go around, but they weren’t taking it as I changed the recipe a bit. They have started to come around on the unlaced version of the new batch and am hoping to start slipping in the laced stuff again. I have not isolated her as she is being taken care of by the others in the tank. The male Turq guards her and seems to even nudge her over too the food while keeping others back until she has gotten some. In order to get her nourished, I have been hand feeding her Blackworms I am raising several times a day. This more than anything so far has seemed to improve her color. I know I will have to deal with the whole “I only like worms now” thing later.

4. Tank size and age. Numbers and sizes of discus.
2 months? 55 gal (supposed to be a swing tank while setting up a new 180 acrylic – long story but had to cancel it because of workmanship) 2 4-5” and 2 5-6” 1 small pleco, 4 SAE (soon to be moved out for some botias) 30 gal sump with bio ball trickle and 6 3” thick foam filter blocks the full size of the sump, sicce 3 turned down a bit

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
30gal water changes several times/week, remineralized RO water


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
2 months? No/Yes – 1/3 is bareish with thin layer of 1/8” gravel and rest with 2-3” of same and planted. They have taken up the 1/3 area because of the overhand of Java Fern but venture throughout tank hunting

7. Do you age your water?
Yes, fill 55 off of RO system, Prime it , sits several days, fill 30gal with fresh RO, remineralize, head aerate , and circ with wave maker

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use?
Prime, PPS ferts

9. Parameters and water source – temp- ph- ammonia- nitrite - nitrate readings.
85, 6.5 – 7, 0, 0, 5-15


10. Water source – Tap, Well or Mix
Tap -> RO -> tank

11. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
This was present from early on with all same things. All plants came from 75 that was being replaced when it was setup (75 all healthy – pair spawing – got to free swimming) , Amanos – got ate, Ghost shrimp – got ate (on purpose), trumpets and pond snails on plants from 75

12. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often.
Frozen Beefheart (Gabe Posada recipe) 2-3x/day 1 ¼” cube each + 1 for anyone who is still hungry , Omega One Flakes or Hans flakes– pinch mostly 1x/day, Sera granules occasionally but not really seeing them taking after them so not doing much, live Brine Shrimp occasionally, I have feed some frozen SF bloodworms early on before learning of issue, some other frozen things – reef frenzy, brine shrimp, SF multi pak


13. Post a photo or video.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...V4?usp=sharing

Thanks in advance!

[bluelagoon]

#7 It says. Prime it, sets several days. My first question: Does your water supply use chloramine or just chlorine? Never let Prime set in the aging container if your using chloramine to disinfect the water supply. After adding Prime the water should be used, at that time. Reason being Prime only holds the bond to chloramine "up to 24 hours", after that ammonia is released back in the water, altho the chlorine part has probably air off. But that might not be the issue with that discus.

[danotaylor]

It looks like all it's fins/tail have significant ammonia burns...

[diverjoe]

That is a good point I had never considered. Although, as you mentioned, I agree that it might not be an issues as the others are un affected. We do have Chloramines I have double Carbon Blocks from Bulk Reef Supply (boo boo saltwater - lol) and I prime the re-mineralized before the actual water change. But it is hit or miss on the last step - so I really need to take a look at that -

Thanks!

[diverjoe]

Yes! But none of the other fish is same??? They have not gotten any worse from early on and none of the others have been affected.

[14Discus]

+1 with danotaylor and bluelagoon

[diverjoe]

Almost forgot - she has had a couple of spots of HITH but have come and went over the course of a day or two maybe 3-4 times. And I have dosed Melafix a couple times as well as Stress Gaurd

[14Discus]

Might be time to put her in hospital tank.

Just curious......
What is your KH and GH? I ask this bc your PH ranges from 6.5 to 7.0 and I’d like to see your buffering capacity. 6.5 is 50x more acid than 7.0. I don’t know how you measured these (once daily or weekly etc.) to get that range, but it leans toward acid which is fine IF your water can keep swings at bay/stable by having a decent KH level. Just trying to figure this out some.......water issues make up (imho) a large percent of fish health issues. The other fish may be healthier allowing for more tolerance with the sick one less able to do so.

[jeep]

I would also ask why you are using RO? A 7 to 6.5ph can be stressful if the discus is already experiencing issues.

I also see some pretty serious gill damage or inflammation. This could be caused by ammonia or bio-load and both can cause deterioration in the fins as well, especially in a weaker fish.

I would isolate and treat with Kanamycin and 3 TBS salt per 10g. Furan 2 is also good for treating gill issues.

[diverjoe]

both GH & KH are running about 2-3 dh. I have had to adjust some of my formulas as KH has been being eaten up - do doubt from the poop machines in the tank. A good portion of the swing though is naturally caused by the plants across the day/night cycle. I am not pushing CO2 during the day like my main tank so the dynamics are a little different. I do not have a hospital tank on hand however and looking for one as of yesterday in prep for what you good folks may suggest I do. Today she has seemed much more aggressive with the eating - both of FBH and live Black Worms. Seems like maybe the hand feeding of the black worms is starting to pay off and she is getting some strength - no meat but more active

[diverjoe]

RO - water is 700-800ppm - really hard. Plus chloramines and lots of extra nitrates (lots of corn covering the watershed) PH swinging between 6.5 and 7.5 is actually pretty small as it is logarithmic progression 6-5 is HEAVY. I have not used salt or Kanamycin - see it is sold in Kanaplex- have never used it before. Did you by chance look at the pics and video in the link above the pics? If not there is more closeups of gills. I am in the process of setting up tank. Will seed a sponge filter with the sump filter

[diverjoe]

Please look at the link above the pics as there is some closeup video

[14Discus]

Yes.....PH is logarithmic and 6-5 is heavy being 100 times more acidic From 6 to 5. If your tank reads (and I did say I don’t know how you measured) 7.0 on day one and then reads 6.5 on day two (50x), the potential exists for concern prior to it being 100x. You mentioned your KH has been “eaten up”. Perhaps upping your KH to 5 or 6 would help. Ideally, the WC water should match the tank water as much as possible. One time a ways back, I noticed my tank PH dropped from 7.8 to 7.2 and I checked my KH quickly and found it was near 0. Needless to say, I took measures to correct before things could get worse. Your one sick fish is, no doubt, the weakest of the lot, but also may be warning you of issues that later on might effect the rest. My aquarium plants have never created PH swings greater than .2. Just trying to help....that’s all.

[diverjoe]

Oh yes! I know you are helping! You are 100% correct about the KH needing to be higher. One of the things I have been failing at and your questions have brought that to mind is replenishing the minerals that the plants eat each week. I have it automated on my 75 so they stay pretty much dead on like clockwork - can see that in the graphs. And yes, I realize that I know the KH has gotten nearly 0. And as you say is really the bigger issue with stability and water quality. I have been an idiot for not addressing it sooner! As I am confessing, I have also, early on allowed the Nitrites to get up to 5-10. I don't recall Ammonia ever being high. I did not know about how Prime worked until reading (on this magnificent board) that you have 24-48 hr reprieve with any pent-up ammonia. So the pieces are falling into place. I know I will be sometimes argumentative, but I am teachable. Please accept my continuing apology - I dont mean to be. I know I don't have the answers as apparent by my fishes condition. I am most concerned about the "hangy" things on her gill coverlet and her huge weight loss.

Thank your for your time and patience.

[14Discus]

You have certainly not been an idiot and your concern for the fish is admirable. I just wanted to let u know my thinking (and I’m still learning to this day). If things get better even though u may lose this particular fish, then all is good. Several people have made suggestions....hopefully they’ll pan out. In the long run, your fishkeeping will improve as we’ve all lost fish for varying reasons. Don’t give up and do realize that we care to have u succeed w your fish and we also benefit from what we pickup from the Forum. Good luck......no hard feelings.