Help! 12 day old fry dying

[Fireflykirsten]

Woke up this morning to find my brood of 50 12 day old fry had dwindled to about 15! Thought parents might be eating them, but then found a few floating on the surface, and a few lethargic on the bottom of the tank...they were feeding nicely on newly hatched bbb, been doing 50-75% water changes daily, parents were doing a great job....so sad. All I did differently was added a new plastic plant to the tank. What can I do to help the 15 or so remaining or is it a lost cause now?
I knew I shouldn’t have gotten so excited!

[Larry208]

When you are doing your water changes, are you using water straight from the tap or using aged water?

[coralbandit]

Hey Kristen besides the question from Larry can you offer them some ground up flake or other prepared food?

[danotaylor]

Hi Kristen, sorry for your loss. I have no experience with breeding discus and raising fry, but I do know gill flukes can cause fry death as you are experiencing. Gill flukes can be passed from adult fish to their fry. They take 10 days to mature once they find a host, which could explain your losses at 12 days as the fry succumb to the parasites. I have read here that a lot of breeders will treat breeding pairs for gill flukes for this reason before they start to seriously work with them in a breeding project. I have never treated for flukes, but maybe Willie, Cliff, Liz, Pat or Brian will chime in with their process.

[Willie]

It could be gill flukes. In my experience, the fry struggle for air near the surface when that happens. The flukes cover their tiny gills so they're literally suffocating. They become exhausted and fall to the bottom to die. All discus have gill flukes, which seldom cause problem with adult fish. They're the major killer of fry for me. Having said this, I'm generally leery of providing medical advice sight unseen. However, you'll probably lose the entire spawn so there's little downside to trying something.

Treatment is formalin, a 37% solution of formaldehyde available from pharmacies. Formaldehyde is an unstable compound and breakdown products are extremely toxic (to both you and fish). The key is to have fresh formalin, which is why I do NOT recommend buying it from an aquarium supply company. When you get it, store it in the refrigerator away from light. No prescription is needed.

Treatment is as follows. Put fry into a pail with a known volume of water (from the tank) and an airstone. I go 3 drops/gal for 60 minutes. After which, you change the water. If the fry goes belly up, then change water immediately. So obviously this involves staying with the fish and watching them for a bad reaction. Formaldehyde is an astringent and the flukes will literally release and fall off the gill. So if you net the fry back to their original tank, the fluke pressure is reduced 100X - 1,000X. You shouldn't have any more losses and the fish usually have a complete recovery. Usually I have to treat only once.

Good luck, Willie

[seanyuki]

Formalin toxicity is increased at high water temperatures. If water temperatures exceed 70°F (21°C), the concentration used should be decreased.

[Willie]

3 drops/gal is for 82F.

[danotaylor]

Great info Willie...I knew you'd have the formula...educated query as well Francis...I had no idea that temp could affect the concentration...is that because of the decreasing O2 carrying capacity in warmer water?

[seanyuki]

Just sharing...... Use of Formalin to Control Fish Parasites
By: Ruth Francis-Floyd

https://www.dph.nl/article/cat-02/formalin.shtml

[CliffsDiscus]

Kristen, Sorry for you lost. You mention about an earlier feeding with bbs before the
lost. Your bbs egg may have oodinium, they sometimes come in on the
bbs cyst. The treatment is
same as with the fuke . Usually early treatment works best as soon as I notice
the problem medication is add otherwise its
a wipeout.

Cliff

[Fireflykirsten]

Yes, I just use tap with water conditioner like I do for the community tank which has always been fine for them. They breed in it! I have test strips that always look good- could there be something in the tap that’s killing the fry as they are not as strong as their parents?

[Fireflykirsten]

Thank you very much

[Fireflykirsten]

Thanks Cliff, I was thinking too that there could have been a few bs shells in there? How do you all do your bbs? I shine a light on them after they’ve hatched and suck them into a net with a turkey blaster, rinse them and put them in a little aquarium water in a plastic container with air holes in the fridge until the next batch is ready. I don’t see how you be SURE there are no shells in there?

[Fireflykirsten]

Ok thanks for all the great suggestions. I hadn’t seen the replies until today.
There were some dead floating fry and some on the bottom. I ended up putting the parents back in the community tank thinking the rest would probably die too. I changed 90% of the water and there are 27 of them still alive in their own 20 gallon now.

On a side note- I also had a batch of baby angelfish (150 or more) that were 3 days old and about 1/2 the size of the discus fry. I thought they could share a tank until they needed more space, boy was I wrong. Within minutes the discus were actively trying to violently shake and kill/eat the angelfish. So removed all the discus fry, they’re in their own tank for the past 3-4 days and no one else has died. Weird?

I tried some frozen beef heart, they completely ignore it. None of my adults will touch it either. Will the fry eventually take to it?

[Yashua]

Ok thanks for all the great suggestions. I hadn’t seen the replies until today.
There were some dead floating fry and some on the bottom. I ended up putting the parents back in the community tank thinking the rest would probably die too. I changed 90% of the water and there are 27 of them still alive in their own 20 gallon now.

On a side note- I also had a batch of baby angelfish (150 or more) that were 3 days old and about 1/2 the size of the discus fry. I thought they could share a tank until they needed more space, boy was I wrong. Within minutes the discus were actively trying to violently shake and kill/eat the angelfish. So removed all the discus fry, they’re in their own tank for the past 3-4 days and no one else has died. Weird?

I tried some frozen beef heart, they completely ignore it. None of my adults will touch it either. Will the fry eventually take to it?

Beef heart was difficult for my fish to catch on especially when I made my own diy food with beef heart in it. It helped when I would shake off bits and pieces for the fish to eat and usually the first few feedings are a mess and you need to clean right after because the whole tank will be littered but with tiny bits floating and the smell of food I bet they will eventually grab a bite or two and realize it’s food. Now I break a chunk off and thrown it in and before it sinks they are smashing the stuff and happily will gobble it all down small bits and all now.