Very Skittish/Darting all of a sudden

[Oxboy]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Everything fine until 4 days ago, now super skittish when I open the lid or there's a sudden movement near the tank. They then dart and bang the glass. I can't tell if one fish is spooking all of them or if they are all spooked simultaneously.

Up until 4 days ago, everything was fine. I could hand feed them without issue. Everybody was relaxed. Nothing that I can think of has changed.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Major darting and skittish when I open the lid or any sudden movement near the tank. When I look at the tank from a distance they are out swimming and hovering. Maybe a little lethargic but not breathing hard. They appear to be schooling a little tighter than normal. No real aggression in the past or now. They are all eating, showing color, not hiding. No obvious physical signs anywhere of trauma or illness. They are not dark and are not scratching themselves on the sand or driftwood. No weight loss. Fins are out and poop is normal...no white strings. No shredded fins. Eyes are bright orange/red. When it's breakfast time in the morning, they get eager to eat like always.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

No meds yet. I have tested the water for voltage leakage. A very tiny reading of 2 or 3 volts.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

55gal set up for 8 months. Five discus 3-4" when purchased from local breeder who raises discus in local tap (which is liquid rock here in Las Vegas). All have grown 1/2" to 1" over the 8 months. Had a dozen cardinal tetras originally to cycle the tank but removed them a couple months ago. Just 5 discus in there now. I originally had 7 fish, but one died a few days after purchase (probably just couldn't handle acclimation) and one became a picked-on stunt/runt that I removed a month ago.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

80% every 2-4 days depending on schedule. Never longer than 4 days in between so always at least 2x per week. I make sure incoming water is right around 86 degrees. I take my sponges and bio media out and keep in a pitcher of tank water during water changes. The last 4 days I have done the 80% WC daily to try and ease their discomfort but it's not making a difference.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

8 months. 1/4-1/2" layer of pool filter sand. Two pieces of driftwood properly cleaned before going in. One little anubias tied to driftwood....No other plants.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No. I python from the tap into the tank. I have been doing this for 8 months with zero issues. This is how the breeder does it too. The discus used to love water changes... sometimes coming out and playing with the gravel vac. The 5-8 minutes (time it takes to fill the tank from 20% to 100%, then immediately Prime) of chloramine/chlorine in the fresh water never seemed to be an issue. My pH is 7.8 out the tap and settles to 7.7 or so in the tank.


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

Prime. 2 caps immediately after every water change. Right into the tank once full of new tap water from the python.


9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ___constant 86 degrees__

- ph _____7.7

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____1-2 ppm

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____100% (I measured my straight tap and no ammonia, nitrite or nitrates to speak of.)

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Nope.


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

3x a day in a varied rotation:

• Al's FD blackworms
• Hikari FD bloodworks
• Hikari frozen bloodworms
• San Francisco Frozen beefheart
• Hikari brine shrimp
• San Francisco FD Krill (they don't like this much)
• Spirulina Flakes
• Cobalt Discus Flakes
• Sera Discus granules

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.


To summarize, I have been racking my brain to diagnose. No cleaners, chemicals or toxins have entered the tank that I can see. No voltage leaking in. No wild pH fluctuations before or after water changes. The bio filter hasn't crashed according to test readings. If not aging the water were an issue, wouldn't they have shown their discomfort at some point during the first 8 months? If it were the environment like lighting, movement or TV (about 15 ft away), why all of sudden? We have introduced no kids or dogs to the environment. Nothing has changed in terms of noise or movement levels around the tank. I have not changed the lighting or the lighting routine. Again, up until 4 days ago, they were chill and happy...loose schooling and no aggression really. Something all of a sudden is making them uncomfortable and I don't know what it is. My guess at this point is it would either be the onset of illness or something still in the water (or added to the water by the city that I can't detect?). The last 4 days I have been doing a daily 80% WC during which they hide under the driftwood, then come out when I finish. What do you guys think? Help!

[Iminit]

Well you can try 2 things. One put the cardinals back in and see if that settles them down. Next try upping your water changes to 50% every other day. I think them become habitual. Once they jump for something them just continue whenever it happens. Mine jump for food. The jumping spreads it all over the tank. But a school of dither fish allways moving will stop them from doing it.

[Oxboy]

Well you can try 2 things. One put the cardinals back in and see if that settles them down. Next try upping your water changes to 50% every other day. I think them become habitual. Once they jump for something them just continue whenever it happens. Mine jump for food. The jumping spreads it all over the tank. But a school of dither fish allways moving will stop them from doing it.

- They were ok long after I took the cardinals out. I don't have the cards any more so I'd have to go through the QT routine.
- If I'm going to do 50%, I may as well do 80%, right? It's like an incremental 5 min of my time.

[BrendanJ23]

Why do you wait until the tank is full of tap water to then add Prime?

[Oxboy]

Why do you wait until the tank is full of tap water to then add Prime?

My understanding is Prime works pretty instantly. If I put Prime in half way through the WC, it will treat the existing tank water, but NOT the new fresh water coming in? This has been my understanding, so i've waited until all the tap is in, then treat with Prime.

Or do I have it all wrong and Prime stays in solution for a while?

[Oxboy]

Holy crap, I think I just figured it out. A couple of weeks ago, I bought a cheap pump to siphon water faster during WCs and to not waste tap via the python. I immerse this pump in the tank, plug it in and now the discus go hide bigtime during WCs. I think they hate this new noisy invader. Not sure if it's the noise, vibrations or the electricity but it was a big change for them to the normally tolerable low-key WCs. And now i've hit them with it 4 days in a row! Ugh. Whenever I lift the lid, they dont know if it's food or The Beast. What do you guys think?? Gonna go low key, ambient light only, no WCs for a few days and see..

[Iminit]

Yes the pump could be the problem. Is the tank grounded? And on a gfi? I allways just use the python into buckets.

[BrendanJ23]

Trial and error Oxboy. The second lot of discus I got were sooooo different to the originals. They ate on the first day, and I don't have to tiptoe around them. I use submersible pump which is around 10,000L for WC's and is about the size of a watermelon, they are just used to it and don't appear phased at all by it.

Re Prime: You raise a good point Oxboy, but I also think that exposure to chlorine etc in the tap water may be causing stress? I have always treated as the tank fills (it fills in under 5mins) and usually overdose slightly too, as my tap water has ammonia as well.
This might be best left for the pro's to answer.

[dspeers]

You can get a cheap non-submersible pump and do the same. I got one on sale from the LFS which had pipe fittings and then bought adapters for hose fittings from Home Depot. Harbor Freight also has a cheap one with hose fittings I saw advertised. My understanding water change takes 5 minutes, so new water at~ 2.5 minutes, then prime, and then another minute or so to eliminate chloramine. Chloramine can kill in as little as 10 minutes, and you are protecting your bacteria from possibly crashing. Even though your Ph doesn't vary, if at all possible you might consider aging your water for a day with aeration and heat and then the issue of how to add Prime becomes moot and you don't have to remove your sponges or bio-filter. I know you haven't had problems but have to question whether there is at least a little gill damage with each water change which might even be accumulating. Even if not, aging is a reasonable prevention for possible future problems.

[Oxboy]

You can get a cheap non-submersible pump and do the same. I got one on sale from the LFS which had pipe fittings and then bought adapters for hose fittings from Home Depot. Harbor Freight also has a cheap one with hose fittings I saw advertised. My understanding water change takes 5 minutes, so new water at~ 2.5 minutes, then prime, and then another minute or so to eliminate chloramine. Chloramine can kill in as little as 10 minutes, and you are protecting your bacteria from possibly crashing. Even though your Ph doesn't vary, if at all possible you might consider aging your water for a day with aeration and heat and then the issue of how to add Prime becomes moot and you don't have to remove your sponges or bio-filter. I know you haven't had problems but have to question whether there is at least a little gill damage with each water change which might even be accumulating. Even if not, aging is a reasonable prevention for possible future problems.

After all the above comments, I will definitely be amending my Prime adding strategy. If i'm doing a 50% WC, at the very least I will add the Prime at the 75% full and immediate 100% marks.

[LizStreithorst]

Any oil-less pump should work. I can't see that the noise would be an issue. I would add the prime at the start of WC rather than after like the others. I don't know much about electricity, but why should there be any stray voltage in the tank?

[bignate]

Hi guys, Big Nate from virginia here, I recently had another expierence with the "darting Discus Syndrome"! I went through this about a year ago when i lost around 12 fish ranging in size from 3"-5.5". I went through so many meds and so much money its not even funny. Finally i took the advice of a fellow hobbiest from this forum and looked into SULFUR MEDS. I personally found that API meds are NOT as strong and effective as the are chalked up to be. Now SEACHEM, thats another story... I started with SULFAPLEX. I dosed the crap out of my 125 gal tank, following the maximum dose guide. But first i took ALL the substrate, plants, driftwood, and orniments out of my tank. I cranked the temp up to 92'F, stripped all my filters of everything except sponges, bio media, and filter floss. Did a 90% water change, added aquarium salt, a little epsom salt, QUICK START.