Discus Vibrating

[Kailas]

Hi

I have high tech fully planted setup of around 150 litres (42G) running for 6-8 months.
Added 4 discus to it around a month back. All of them were doing fine, eating well and grown well in month (except some peppering on 2, mostly due to black background).

Since last 3-4 days, one of my discus started vibrating. It mostly remains at the back alone vibrating, but moves around the tank sometime. It's eating TetraBits during feeding time, though not as before.
I am worried that it's not well, having some kind of disease. Tested water params and they look okay - PH 7.4 (always same during weekly tests) while ammonia, nitrite, nitrates all zero / near-zero. I tried some salt treatment for last couple of days, but no visible difference.

Following is the link to video of it's latest behaviour -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UORahQQZAP0

Can someone please advise if it's really ill and if so, further line of treatment?

Thanks & Regards,
Kailas

[BrendanJ23]

Hi Kailas and welcome! Please fill out the disease questionnaire to help us help you.

In the mean time, I would recommend transferring this fish to a hospital tank with clean aged water, and adding salt st 2TBSP/10 gal.

[danotaylor]

I agree with Brendan, please fill out the questionnaire as there is much info that will determine causation. The fish does appear to be breathing rapidly as well. More info will help our resident disease diagnosers (is that a word?) help you...

[Kailas]

Thanks Brendan and Daniel for quick replies.

Here's the questionnaire -

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
One out of 4 discuss is vibrating/shaking. Started around 3 days before. Nothing unusual noted at the start of the problem.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
It mostly remains at the back alone vibrating, but moves around the tank sometime. Come at front for feeding and eats (Tetrabits), but is not eating as much as before. Fins look okay. Takes it's nice blueish colours sometime even now.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Tried moving into the bucket for around 8 hours with air-stone and added some salt.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
30x18x18, around 150 litres (42G).
3 discus (including the problematic one) around 3.5 inch, 1 around 2.5 inch.
Other fish - 2 copper tetra, 1 serpae tetra, 2 pristella tetra, 2 siamese, 3 corys.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
50% change per week.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank is high tech planted with injected CO2, Eheim 2215, Amazonia II soil. Daily dosing of AquaSphere fertilisers (https://aquabynature-shop.com/liquid...lizer-kit.html) 2ml each.

3/4 of the bottom is covered with monte carlo carpet and then there are few plants (honda and few stem plants) covering most open areas.
Tank is running around for 8 months with above mentioned community fish. Discuss were added around 4-5 weeks back and have grown well since I bought them.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I use tap water without aging. Add declorinator before adding the water. I haven't seen any Ph swing for last couple months since I started closely monitoring it (to add discuss), it's always around 7.4


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I use local solution given by LFS in prescribed amount. It's mixed to with tap water in small intermediate container as water gets added to tank.

9. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 28

- ph 7.4

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0-10

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water 100%

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Nothing added after adding discuss.

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Tetrabits 4 times a day, separated by 4 hours.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Following is the link to video of it's latest behaviour -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UORahQQZAP0

Following is an old video taken after discus settled in new tank -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzRuHIeX7as

[BrendanJ23]

.

[BrendanJ23]

I agree with Brendan, please fill out the questionnaire as there is much info that will determine causation. The fish does appear to be breathing rapidly as well. More info will help our resident disease diagnosers (is that a word?) help you...

It is now Daniel haha

[smsimcik]

Ok Kailas I'll give you my thoughts.
First, the "vibrating" is just a rapidly breathing sick and distressed fish. From the old video you provided, the blue diamond appears to be bullying the fish that is now sick. Bullying is a common cause of juvenile discus getting sick. You don't have enough discus in that set up. You need at least 6 to help prevent any one fish from being bullied.
Also, trying to grow out juvenile discus in a planted tank is a recipe for disaster even for experienced discus keepers. Discus hate CO2 and need good aeration with O2.
The temp should be closer to 30C for juvenile discus.
You aren't changing enough water to promote healthy growth in juvenile discus. They need daily water changes of at least 50%. That's why most people use bare bottom tanks to grow out discus.
Tetra bits is ok for adult discus but juveniles need a higher quality diet. Frozen brine shrimp, freeze dried blood worms or freeze dried blackworms along with a high quality flake food should be fed to juvies.
Sorry for being so negative. But that sick fish isn't going to do well in that set up. You should take him out and set him up in a bare bottom tank with just a heater and sponge filter. Do daily water changes and start feeding better foods. All of your discus would be better off in a bare bottom set up. But you need more than 3 to prevent bullying.

By the way, You have a beautiful planted tank. If it was mine, I would just keep a nice school of cardinal or rummy nose tetras in there.

[Kailas]

Thanks Steve, for taking out time and giving honest opinion/thoughts.

I will take few actions items from this -
1) Setup hospital tank for the sick discus.
2) Increase water change frequency, will target for at least an alternate day 50% change.
3) Will raise temperature to 30C. I hope my corys will tolerate that.
4) Will look for better food options.
5) Will also add a pair of discus to the tank.

BTW somehow the sick discus looks little better today. It's still breathing fast, but eat well today and is roaming around the tank.

Thanks again for the help, and thanks for complements on planted tank too.

[BrendanJ23]

Thanks Steve, for taking out time and giving honest opinion/thoughts.

I will take few actions items from this -
1) Setup hospital tank for the sick discus.
2) Increase water change frequency, will target for at least an alternate day 50% change. Just be sure to age water and/or check for PH swing
3) Will raise temperature to 30C. I hope my corys will tolerate that.28 will be fine, increasing temp will just increase their metabolism which will make them grow faster.
4) Will look for better food options.freeze dried black worms are a good option, although probably hard to come by atm with Covid
5) Will also add a pair of discus to the tank. Ensure these are quarantined properly. I feel as though you might be doing too much and making too many changes at once. I’d set up a BB tank as mentioned above, as I believe it is only a matter of time before your other fish become unwell

BTW somehow the sick discus looks little better today. It's still breathing fast, but eat well today and is roaming around the tank.

Thanks again for the help, and thanks for complements on planted tank too.

.

[danotaylor]

I agree with Steve's assessment. In the last moments of the vid of them after introduction the fish in question adopts the same submissive posture as in the vid of it "shaking".
Blue diamonds are notorious for being bullies. I am amazed at the how high a percentage of trouble peeps have with bully discus, and it's a BD as the culprit. Lil turds, but they look so cool, lol.
I also agree that the fix is to add 2-3 more discus, but at 42gal they will eventually outgrow the space once they pass 5". Sometimes rearranging the scape and changing territories will help, but since you have an established planted tank (very nice btw) that will prove difficult. So you could remove the bully to another tank for a few days, let the hierarchy shuffle and then reintroduce it later and see if that helps.

[jeep]

Ok Kailas I'll give you my thoughts.
First, the "vibrating" is just a rapidly breathing sick and distressed fish. From the old video you provided, the blue diamond appears to be bullying the fish that is now sick. Bullying is a common cause of juvenile discus getting sick. You don't have enough discus in that set up. You need at least 6 to help prevent any one fish from being bullied.
Also, trying to grow out juvenile discus in a planted tank is a recipe for disaster even for experienced discus keepers. Discus hate CO2 and need good aeration with O2.
The temp should be closer to 30C for juvenile discus.
You aren't changing enough water to promote healthy growth in juvenile discus. They need daily water changes of at least 50%. That's why most people use bare bottom tanks to grow out discus.
Tetra bits is ok for adult discus but juveniles need a higher quality diet. Frozen brine shrimp, freeze dried blood worms or freeze dried blackworms along with a high quality flake food should be fed to juvies.
Sorry for being so negative. But that sick fish isn't going to do well in that set up. You should take him out and set him up in a bare bottom tank with just a heater and sponge filter. Do daily water changes and start feeding better foods. All of your discus would be better off in a bare bottom set up. But you need more than 3 to prevent bullying.

By the way, You have a beautiful planted tank. If it was mine, I would just keep a nice school of cardinal or rummy nose tetras in there.

Excellent assessment and advice!

[Kailas]

Thanks Brendan and Daniel.

I agree with Brendan that doing too many changes right away may lead to more issues. I have started with daily water changes and PH monitoring (fortunately no swings seen). Moved victim to hospital tank and it looks slightly better.
I will add a pair once things are settled. Agree with Daniel that they may outgrow the space later, will hopefully be able to upgrade to bigger tank then.