Discus died after water change.

[Willie]

I use conditioned water all the time and make 100% water changes daily. This applies to adult discus tanks and juvenile discus tanks (and the angelfish tanks as well.) In the winter in Minneapolis, water comes into the house at 35F so it has very high levels of saturated gases. Even going through the heater does not release enough gases and produces the 'bends' when I change water. So everything goes through 24-hours of aeration before use. This is not necessary in the summer, but I do it anyway because the system is already set up and requires no further work.

Making large water changes is not the problem. Not conditioning your water is.

[Megalodon]

If the water in your water system is delivered with high pressure, when you let that water out by tap it's at a lower pressure. Resulting in the release of dissolved gas which turns into tiny bubbles.

Why don't I see bubbles forming instantly in a glass of water?

[Megalodon]

My input here is that since you’ve been doing this regularly and this is your first problem. The town more than likely cleaned the pipes. They added something to clean out the piping system. They do this routinely and most times you’d never know. I never change 90% unless I’m moving the tank. I also use tap water. I don’t use any additives I filter through an under counter filter first than into the tank. Sorry for your loss.

OP said they'd been paralyzed in the past.

[jeep]

This is so true!!!

So everything goes through 24-hours of aeration before use. This is not necessary in the summer, but I do it anyway because the system is already set up and requires no further work...... Making large water changes is not the problem. Not conditioning your water is.

[Oxboy]

If the water in your water system is delivered with high pressure, when you let that water out by tap it's at a lower pressure. Resulting in the release of dissolved gas which turns into tiny bubbles.

What is the best way to avoid microbubbles if you fill straight from the tap?

[peewee1]

What is the best way to avoid microbubbles if you fill straight from the tap?

That would be the purpose of Prime. Two drops per gallon.

[captainandy]

Hypoxemia. When you use straight tap with prime you must make sure that the tank has well circulated and oxygenated water.

[peewee1]

Why don't I see bubbles forming instantly in a glass of water?

I had read once that the dirtier the glass the more bubbles will form. The understanding was that the bubble forms on the impurity inside of the glass. So a sterile glass may not develop bubbles, is what I surmised.

[Johnny95132]

OP said they'd been paralyzed in the past.

Yeah, I've made the mistake of changing too much water at once too many times. Believe me, this isn't the first tank full of discus I've killed, as crazy as that sounds. Before I lost even more fish (around 14) due to my rash decision to change the whole tank water. That loss was even greater than this one in terms of money. I lost around 15 discus at the grand sum of $800 versus $300 in this one. Both losses could be attributed to the same problem- too much water changed at once. I'm kicking myself in the foot for not having learned from my past mistakes. Isn't there a saying along the lines of "repeating the same thing while expecting different results is the definition of insanity"?
I've should've known that such drastic w/c's would've hurt the discus being the sensitive creatures they are. Next time, I'll go with smaller w/c's spread out through the week vs the one huge water change.

[Johnny95132]

Johny95132,

So sorry to hear of your loss. My Red Eagles (from Kenny) are my favorites too and losing them would be devastating to me as well. I’ve made mistakes in the past and currently do WCs in a specific way.
I never change more than abt 60% of the water. My replacement water is aged, aerated, and set to one degree F above the tank temp. IMHO, changing nearly all the water is risky as a whole unless I had several aged barrels of fresh water. Changing too much at once, and some will disagree, is working on a precipice as I see it. I don’t trust my finger gauge of temp, my water as a whole, and my adding chemicals to neutralize gases. Aged water can be tested, is nearly the same as what’s being replaced, and the way to go as I see it. I even test my aged water for KH, GH, and sometimes PH. I don’t like to take chances. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the condolences. It does really sting to lose the Red Eagle as it sure has nice coloration. The deep scarlet red made all the other color discus pale in comparison. Man, I was hoping to enter it in the NADA 2021 Las Vegas show.

I would use a water barrel in the future for water changes. But I'd don't think I would be that diligent to test the water every time I change water. I can't fathom using the API master kit every time I add water. Do you use the test strips instead?

[Johnny95132]

As you suspected, Johnny, this could be a mystery without knowing the water makeup. I myself use tap daily for past 2 years with Prime added at the time of changing. I have city water system and wonder if your system had by chance flushed or cleaned their systems. Brian is smart about these things and his reasoning seems logical. The only difference between he and I is the method of our daily water change. While sad if the remaining four are doing fine the good news might be that Kenny just got a new shipment of fish after months of none because of covids. Instead of grabbing for the nearest bottle of Jim Beam perhaps grab the phone and order? Kenny is the kind of guy on hearing your sad story might just pick out a few of his finest from his remaining stock and get you back in business.

Yeah, I thought about the possibility of the city "cleaning out their pipes" in the past. I've done large w/c's in the past usually w/o problems, but twice the fish have been completely knocked out afterwards like this case. I wonder if they do add massive doses of chlorine to clean out the water especially with the surge in coronavirus cases here. Btw, I live in San Jose, which has had pretty large number of virus cases. I've been tempted to call the water company to check what's up with the water treatment. But I'm not that diligent to keep track of precise water readings.

I'll definitely contact Kenny when his next shipment's posted; I'm already longing for my discus. But part of me is concerned that I can't keep these fish alive for long. Maybe I should stick to something more hardier such as goldfish.

[Johnny95132]

A few years ago, Seachem inexplicably changed the dosage of Safe without changing the formula. The dose was reduced more than six-fold.

If you heated the replacement water to anywhere near tank temperature, it would be degassed so it wasn't gas emboli.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'd never knew that Safe was that less effective in neutralizing chloramines versus prime. I'd previously thought that too much Safe would be toxic, therefore I would purposely underdose. This probably led to incomplete neutralization of chlorine then. The funny thing is I had all my "sudden deaths" after switching from prime to safe. All just to save a few bucks- which cost me major $$ in the end. I learned an invaluable lesson from this though, that spending more for quality is better- whether it's spending more for Prime or buying from quality suppliers.

[peewee1]

Yeah, I thought about the possibility of the city "cleaning out their pipes" in the past. I've done large w/c's in the past usually w/o problems, but twice the fish have been completely knocked out afterwards like this case. I wonder if they do add massive doses of chlorine to clean out the water especially with the surge in coronavirus cases here. Btw, I live in San Jose, which has had pretty large number of virus cases. I've been tempted to call the water company to check what's up with the water treatment. But I'm not that diligent to keep track of precise water readings.

I'll definitely contact Kenny when his next shipment's posted; I'm already longing for my discus. But part of me is concerned that I can't keep these fish alive for long. Maybe I should stick to something more hardier such as goldfish.

If you buy healthy fish, find your comfort level with water changing, tap with Prime and you would be okay. Maybe you are trying to hard? Discus are hardy fish if one gives them a change.

[Oxboy]

Hypoxemia. When you use straight tap with prime you must make sure that the tank has well circulated and oxygenated water.

I add the Prime into the tank then python the tap right into the tank. No good?

[Megalodon]

I had read once that the dirtier the glass the more bubbles will form. The understanding was that the bubble forms on the impurity inside of the glass. So a sterile glass may not develop bubbles, is what I surmised.

I've seen it happen in hotels but never at home. And only with hot water, IIRC. It comes out cloudy and takes a few seconds to clear.

It's also not concentrated on the surface of the glass.