Newbie Discus Tank

[Leigh Ann]

Hello! My name is Leigh Ann and I am starting a tank journal here as a total discus newbie. I live in Brazil so acquiring some great specimens shouldn't be a problem. I have been a hobbyist on and off since I was a kid. I've kept everything from reef tanks to nano betta tanks. I've kept planted aquariums of various sizes.

Since I have no previous experience with discus, I've been reading this forum extensively. The introductory video posted in the beginner forum was awesome! I've also been watching videos from the Jack Wattley and Joey DIY Youtube channels.

The tank is NOT set up yet...it's on it's way. Sorry I have no pictures but they'll come. I wanted to start seeking feedback and advice as early as possible. Failure to prepare means preparing for failure! But I do have the dimensions...I work in metric, hope that's okay. I live in a small apartment so space is at a premium..I also have a husband who thinks this tank size is insane. Poor dear, he has no idea!

200 Liter Aquarium (52ish gallons)
1 meter x 40 cm x 50cm

Decor is going to be biotope-ISH. Basically driftwood, a few botanicals and the thinnest coverage on the bottom of gravel...as close to bare bottom without being bare bottom. It's going to be pretty sparsely decorated with a tint to the water. Some palms in background and a small scatter of leaves in the front. The botanicals are a "maybe". I'm going to run the tank with some cardinal tetras first to see how I can manage the water chemistry with all that going on. If I can maintain stability after a few water changes and feel confident, I will go ahead and add the discus. If not...botanicals are out and it'll just be driftwood, gravel and rooibos tea for tint. I like the idea of some pothos roots dangling in the tank and/or some frogbit floating on the top.

I tested my tap water and the Ph is 7.2 and the hardness is 8Gh. I don't think I will need an RO system with that. I plan on aging my water with an aeration stone prior to each water change. I also plan on running a heater in the aging container too. I plan on a 50 percent water change each week...I hear a range of thoughts on this so I'm not sure if this is enough. I'm prepared to do more....totally get the WNDAWC mentality!

I'm going with a 10 gallon/40 litre sump for filtration. Mechanical will be a sponge (specifics to be determined), biological will be some ceramic bricks and rings. Flirting with the idea of a small refugium with some plants (and live food?) and an aeration stone. I have a pump that advertises 4000 litres per hour (1000 gallons) but I know that's not reality...I am halving the number in my head.

Stock plans are 5 discus. I plan on getting adults, I don't plan on growing anything out. I am not sure on sourcing. I am going to contact Santarem to see who their Brazilian distributor is. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll supply direct to me. I love the look of wild discus and would love that! But I know I could get the same look in captive bred fish. If I can get wilds that are eating granules/flakes, I'll consider it. Also, I'll want to know what water parameters they are being housed in at the dealer. Being in Brazil, I am optimistic I will have a variety of options for stocking.

Dither fish.....it depends. With the tank size, would a small school of cardinals or hatchet fish be too much..like a dozen? I would also like a few cories and a bristlenose pleco if it's not pushing the bioload boundaries. I'd be happy to do more water changes if that means I can get a few tank mates. I'd choose tank mates that are good with higher temperatures and true to a blackwater biotope. Planning to keep the water temp in the late 20's celsius (83-84F)

I want to feed the highest variety of food I can get my hands on. Not sure how to get live blackworms in Sao Paulo yet but I'm looking. Freeze dried, frozen, flakes, granules. I will not be feeding them bloodworms or beefheart. I don't plan on making any food....pre-made and alive only. I plan on feeding twice a day, morning and evening.

My goals are a decent looking, approximate biotope with happy, healthy fish. I have no desire to breed discus. I want to try something new (discus, biotope) for someone who has been in aquarium hobby (off and on) for a while. This tank setup will be VERY slow. The tank arrives next week....I'm giving it weeks to cycle before I add the cardinals. Then it will be another few weeks of tweaking, testing water and refining my maintenance routine before I even think about adding the discus. I'll document the process here but it'll be like watching grass grow.

I welcome any dialogue and can take critical and blunt feedback. Thank you for the great information I have found on this forum so far!

[Willie]

Welcome to the forum and get ready for an adventure. We look forward to those pictures.

The only major concern I have with your description is the use of live black worms. I would urge you to never feed these. Dried or frozen food has the advantage of reduced levels of pathogens and parasites. Your discus will thrive with big water changes and high protein foods. Live food presents a significant danger to discus health.

Good luck, Willie

[peewee1]

You are 100% ready to go and with your plan you will be successful. At your knowlege level you could offer advise to some of the forum newbie. You must have a good source for your fish. Baying all 5 at the same time and if there are no other fish already in the tank there would not be a need to quarantine those 5 fish because the tank is empty at the beginning. The bigger question is you and your husband, Brazil, and coronavirus. Perhaps your time involved in setting up the aquarium and then enjoyment of the discus will keep the both of you inside and safe.

[fljones3]

Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to your enjoyment of these amazing fish.
Continue reading through the Discus Basics for Beginners forum section, especially the sticky threads!

[Leigh Ann]

Good tip on the black worms! Thank you. It is also easier for me (-:

[Leigh Ann]

You are 100% ready to go and with your plan you will be successful. At your knowlege level you could offer advise to some of the forum newbie. You must have a good source for your fish. Baying all 5 at the same time and if there are no other fish already in the tank there would not be a need to quarantine those 5 fish because the tank is empty at the beginning. The bigger question is you and your husband, Brazil, and coronavirus. Perhaps your time involved in setting up the aquarium and then enjoyment of the discus will keep the both of you inside and safe.

That is kind of how it all started! I am safe, keeping isolated and taking all precautions. Staring at the same empty wall in my apartment for weeks is how the whole "maybe it's time for an aquarium" thoughts started to brew. Being in Brazil...it was a natural leap to consider a biotope set up with discus! I am a teacher and school is recently out....so I had time to dive into a DEEP hole of research and reading about the topic. The aquarium purchase and specs were all done via text message and exchanging photos. I would have prefered talking to the aquarium shop owners in person but strange times call for creative measures for setting up the tank! I imagine the same will happen for stocking too. I've never purchased fish online before so that will be a new thing for me!

[Leigh Ann]

You are 100% ready to go and with your plan you will be successful. At your knowlege level you could offer advise to some of the forum newbie. You must have a good source for your fish. Baying all 5 at the same time and if there are no other fish already in the tank there would not be a need to quarantine those 5 fish because the tank is empty at the beginning. The bigger question is you and your husband, Brazil, and coronavirus. Perhaps your time involved in setting up the aquarium and then enjoyment of the discus will keep the both of you inside and safe.

Thank you so much! I've learned so much from this forum! A question...If I have a school of "test cardinals" in the tank already, would I need to quarantine the discus before adding them to the tank? My first guess is no because the quarantine is meant to protect the fish already in the tank. This may be harsh but I'm okay to risk the cardinal stock when introducing the discus. I know if I add any companion fish after the discus, I would need to quarantine them. But it's easier to quarantine a few cories or a dwarf pleco instead of 5 discus.

[peewee1]

Thank you so much! I've learned so much from this forum! A question...If I have a school of "test cardinals" in the tank already, would I need to quarantine the discus before adding them to the tank? My first guess is no because the quarantine is meant to protect the fish already in the tank. This may be harsh but I'm okay to risk the cardinal stock when introducing the discus. I know if I add any companion fish after the discus, I would need to quarantine them. But it's easier to quarantine a few cories or a dwarf pleco instead of 5 discus.

I was thinking the same. If the cardinals are not that important why not skip the quarantine. I also thought that because the varieties of wild discus that would be easier for you to obtain from the Amazon than for any of us why not have a few of your native fish? The cost would be lower for you because of the access and lower transportation cost why not have at least a few true wild fish which may of us living elsewhere would give a lot of money to have. Me included.

[Leigh Ann]

I don't get why I can't upload pics so I've included Google Drive links. Trying to figure out this forum as well as the tank (-;. I've attached a photo my current stock of botanicals. I won't be putting ALL of these in the tank, this is just a stockpile. I've been looking at Tannin Aquatics for what is safe. I would love to order from them but I can't from Brazil (import restrictions). Luckily, I am swimming in botanicals when I walk the dog. These are getting a final dry out. I'll boil anything I add to the tank beforehand and will only put in a little bit. I have banane leaves and stems, palm leaves and stems along with a nice little cache of guava leaves. I've also attached a photo of the view from my Sao Paulo balcony....I'm trying to create a bit of the Amazon in a concrete jungle.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vlT...ew?usp=sharing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLc...ew?usp=sharing

[dspeers]

Have you read this yet?
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...tine-Procedure

The purpose of quarantine is to:
1. Ensure your new fish are not presymptomatic with some disease, thus observation x 1 week
2. Ensure that your new fish are not carrying anything (with no symptoms) that might harm your old fish
3. Ensure that your old fish are not carrying anything (with no symptoms) that might harm your new fish.

4. Al recommends also treating new stock for both worms and flukes, not everyone follows this advice, especially with discus breeders who are very trusted. Also, Al originally recommended treating for Hex but probably removed that recommendation due to the high probability that the medication suppresses the infection to the point that the fish's immune system can control but total cure is not often achieved.

I get that you want your discus in your display tank, but you have no guarantee that the cardinals are not carrying something (even though they appear healthy) that might affect the discus.

If you really want your discus in your display tank DT, then you need to move your cardinals to a hospital tank HT, sterilize your DT, then re cycle it, then add the discus absent any other fish. Whether you choose to prophylactically medicate is up to you.
As for the HT with the cardinals, again prophylactic treatment up to you, then add your least favorite discus to the HT and see if the hero fish develops symptoms or the cardinals do.
If you value both sets of fish the same then you would actually need a 3rd tank and add one hero fish from both groups and observe......

[Leigh Ann]

Oooooo....you bring up many good points. Thank you for that link...there is SO MUCH fabulous information on this forum so I appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I have a lot of thinking to do. I like the idea of moving the cardinals out. I plan on having a 10 gallon HT anyway. That way, I can "practice" maintaining life with the botanicals (I REALLY want to try out the botanicals!) and some cardinals aren't that hard to house in a HT when the time comes. I am REALLY excited about this project but I know that patience and taking it slow will give best results in the long run. I definitely need to do more reading/thinking/asking about preventative treatment of stock. That's something I can decide later...but deferring to successful, longtime discus keepers like Al seems like the best course of action.

[dspeers]

Remember your HT is also your IT (isolation tank) for new purchases. If you follow standard quarantine that will be 8 weeks with medications or at least 4 weeks without. A 10 gallon tank is very limiting in how much new stock you can purchase. Consider larger.

[peewee1]

Leigh Ann, are you going to collect discus from your Amazon River?

[unicast]

I also have a husband who thinks this tank size is insane. Poor dear, he has no idea!

Maybe he is right. This tank is too small...

200 Liter Aquarium (52ish gallons)
1 meter x 40 cm x 50cm

I plan on a 50 percent water change each week...I hear a range of thoughts on this so I'm not sure if this is enough.

With this size and with the amount of fish you want to get, it is definitely not enough.

I tested my tap water and the Ph is 7.2 and the hardness is 8Gh.

Do you know your tap water nitrates level? If not, go and buy any liquid test (Sera, Tetra, JBL etc., not paper stripes) for nitrates and also for nitrites. Then you can decide if you need RO or not.

I plan on getting adults.

From my experience, 7 cm (~ 2 inches) is the right size to buy. Bigger fish is more stressed, refuse to eat for longer time etc.

[Leigh Ann]

Thanks everyone! I will do more water changes (would 50% twice a week be better?) and get a larger HT/IT (20 gallon?). I have already ordered some testing kits online and waiting for them. The only ones I could find at a store that was open were a Ph and GH test along with those testing strips. The strips gave me a nitrate reading but I do not trust those testing stips either...the other tests will come soon! I'll share those readings when I get them. I have an RO in my online shopping cart as we speak.

Regarding sourcing stock, I would like to get wild stock..all at once. But I am fine with captive bred if it is a wiser choice for a beginner. To be honest, I haven't thought much about stock yet. The tank itself arrives on Tuesday and it will be at least a month before the tank will be set up, cycled and tweaked. After that, I want to practice and refine my water change routine etc. (aging, maintaining stability) without the discus to make sure I have good maintenance systems in place. Basically...I want to rehearse for a few weeks! But I did find out that Santarem Discus does not require a minimum order and ships to individual hobbyists. I have heard good things about this supplier so they will be my first call when I am ready.

I agree! 50 gallons is too small...I would love bigger! Funny thing, it turns out my husband has no concept of water volume. When I showed him a photo of my new tank...he was like OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?? IT IS MASSIVE! IT NEEDS IT'S OWN CABINET.... ***??!!!I said "Dude! I told you 50 gallons and you were fine with it when we discussed it!" And he was like "I THOUGHT IT WOULD FIT ON OUR DESK LIKE YOU LAST ONE WITH BOB!!!!" Bob was betta fish. We were talking about 50 gallons and the whole time he was imagining a 10 gallon betta tank. Sorry honey. He has since gotten over the shock and is thinking about how to rearrange the furniture so we have a better view. He sucks at visualising liquid measurements but he's a good human.