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Thread: Discus dropping like flies, please help

  1. #1
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    Default Discus dropping like flies, please help

    In the last few weeks I've lost two discus, one looks to be cured and now another sick with a fleshy white substance near it's gill. Please see disease questionnaire, really urgently want to save my German Wonder Discus:

    DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
    About a month ago, I noticed red turquoise discus had pits in his head. I woke up one morning and it had a huge growth (cyst like thing), and it’s skin looked like it was rotting away. Put it in quarantine but was to late, it passed. At around the same time, another discus (Santarem) was turning dark and excreting excess slime, but not all the time. Few weeks ago I noticed a big sore on my kobalt, which I managed to treat, but now he’s got a big scar (this could of been caused by clown loaches as I caught them nipping at it). More recently, my German wonder has a “fleshy” looking thing near it’s gill, it is not using that gill to breathe anymore.


    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
    Discus 1 (red turquoise) - pitted forehead, but was eating right up till it got the cist on forehead. Died two weeks ago
    Discus 2 (Santarem) - Was turning dark for a number of weeks and excreting slime but was eating. More recently, stop eating more dark and sat in the corner. Died Monday just gone
    Discus 3 (Kobalt) - Had no symptoms at all, noticed it had a small sore on his side 3 weeks ago, I put it down to being attacked as I saw clowns nibbling on it. But got much bigger and sore over a few days, moved to a hospital tank and thankfully has recovered
    Discus 4 (German Wonder) - Not eating, stress bars, one of its gills not working, white fleshy substance on the front part, noticed this on Monday just gone. Breathing rapidly from it’s working gill (see pictures on link)


    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
    Discus 1 (red turquoise) - Moved to quarantine tank, attempted to resolve with API General cure and salt, but I started treatment far to late and it died. Dosages as per recomendation on packet
    Discus 2 (Santarem) No medication, was turning dark with excess slime on occasions, decided to monitor and recently died
    Discus 3 (Kobalt) - Noticed the sore was getting bigger, moved to quarantine and treated with salt, API General Cure and Interpret anti internal bacteria. Moved back into main tank and is doing fine. Dosages as per recommendation on packet
    Discus 4 (German wonder) - No medication so far, still in main tank



    Tank/Water

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
    118 gallons, 9 months old (various adult sizes), I had 13, now down to 11


    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
    40/50% weekly


    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
    Very shallow sand substrate (half inch at the deepest point), tank has been running 7 months


    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
    I don’t age my water, straight out the tap through a HMA filter


    8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
    Mixture of Prime and fluvial water conditioner.


    9. Parameters and water source;

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp 30c_____

    - ph 8.0_____

    - ammonia reading _0___

    - nitrite reading __0__

    - nitrate reading ___20_

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water ___0_

    - municipal water __0__

    - RO water __0__
    - Tap water - 100%


    10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
    Not within the last month since fish got sick, added brissle nose and clown loaches early March.


    11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
    Beef heart mix (STENDKER-Good Heart 3x per day
    Discus Bio gold - 1 (sometimes twice) per day
    Algae wafers and protein wafers for brittle noses and clown loaches x1 per day



    12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Hn?usp=sharing

  2. #2
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Do you know what your ph is from tap vs after a few days in the tank?

    I'm see what looks like HITH in one of your photo's, but the Cobalt looks bad and I'm surprised it made a full recovery using the meds you used.

    First off, I would increase your water changes to at least 50% daily until this is under control, preferably with aged water to reduce ph swings. I would also add about 3-4 TBS salt per 10g for a week. Clean everything real good! If you see anything start to spread you may want to treat with nitrofurizone or Furan 2.

    Most issues are water related. I try to keep nitrates at <5 but nitrates are only one indication of overall water quality.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Hi Jeep,

    From the tap it's 7.6 and after 3/4 and climbs to 8.0/8.2. I did a big water change today and will continue to do so.

    Do you think it's water quality that's the issue?

  4. #4
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Ditto to what Brian said Paul. I would also consider separating the clown loaches into a separate tank. I think they could be causing stress for your discus which is not good for them long term.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  5. #5
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Overall water quality is always my first guess. You said you introduced some new fish recently but you didn't say anything about QT, and this is always risky but I'm not seeing anything that looks like cross contamination.

    Pat has a good idea on the loaches. I'm not sure how big they are now they do get pretty big and will harass discus and cause injury and stress. Bristlenoses are great tank mates...

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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    I noticed the Nitrates out my tap are between 30/40?!, I'm sure this has been <5 in the past. I have special bio media that attacks the nitrates and my tank was always <5, that is odd.

    The Clowns are 3 inches long (ish). I caught the clown loaches latching onto the Kobalt when it had the sore, eating it's flesh!! I thought loaches were supposed to be good tank mates? No i didn't QT the new fish
    Last edited by Paul_ds1985; 06-25-2020 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #7
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    This is what I've heard about loaches. Discus slime can attract many fish and just think what would happen when the loaches get bigger! I would definitely remove them as they could very well be the main cause of your issues. It doesn't take much to turn a small injury into a major one.

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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Just tried to remove the loaces without success, they are so damn quick! Any ideas? I'm really not happy with the nitrate readings out my tap, why the massive jump?

  9. #9
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Wait until you do a big WC and your water level is low. The loaches will be easier to catch then. I'm afraid I can't help you with the nitrates.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    I use the nets to herd the loaches into clear plastic jars. Obviously, with most of the water drained first.

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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Thanks all.. I've just bought myself a camera, going to set it up directly infront of the fish tank and play it back each day to check if the loaches are the source of my problems!

  12. #12
    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    I love clown loaches but they also compete with the discus for food. I would agree with those above to remove the loaches to a non-discus tank if you want to keep discus. Or your local fish store might give you credit for them.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Lots going on and great advice already. I definitely see hith on your discus. The scar on the kobolt could be a few things. I’d guess it cut itself on that driftwood darting across the tank. The loach may have been taking advantage of the open wound. I’ve kept loaches with discus and never seen them go after the slime. Bn plecos is a different story. They can have a taste for discus slime and would put a hole in your fish like that. I had it happen years ago. Discus was going crazy trying to get the bn off. Cameras a great idea. I do have them on my tanks. Next as said your way under on your water changes. I’ve got the same tank 13 discus planted and I do 3 50% a week. Now you should be doing 50% daily. Also that tank won’t be big enough for the loaches and discus. Loaches can get to 10-14”. Will take years but they will grow. They are also much more aggressive at getting food.

    Have your nitrates always been high out of the tap? What kind of filtration on the tank?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    Lots going on and great advice already. I definitely see hith on your discus. The scar on the kobolt could be a few things. I’d guess it cut itself on that driftwood darting across the tank. The loach may have been taking advantage of the open wound. I’ve kept loaches with discus and never seen them go after the slime. Bn plecos is a different story. They can have a taste for discus slime and would put a hole in your fish like that. I had it happen years ago. Discus was going crazy trying to get the bn off. Cameras a great idea. I do have them on my tanks. Next as said your way under on your water changes. I’ve got the same tank 13 discus planted and I do 3 50% a week. Now you should be doing 50% daily. Also that tank won’t be big enough for the loaches and discus. Loaches can get to 10-14”. Will take years but they will grow. They are also much more aggressive at getting food.

    Have your nitrates always been high out of the tap? What kind of filtration on the tank?
    This is the HMA filter i'm using to filter my tap water before it goes into the tank:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Stage-H...0AAOSwcndZqcv7

    No my nitrates have not been that high from my tap as far as i can recall. I use this BIO media in a fluval FX6:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3Kg-6-6lb...53.m2749.l2649

    Up until recently I had <5 nitrates, I can't say for sure when it started to spike as i really didn't test my tank when it was "stable", only the last few days have I noticed the high nitrates when my fish were dying. I did however start using tap water to rinse my bio media, which i'll stop doing.

    I'm hoping this bio media will start reducing the nitrates in my tank and do it's job. Just soooooo many variables that could be the issue!

    Paul

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    Default Re: Discus dropping like flies, please help

    I've just added another picture of the kobalt blue when it was in the main tank and i just noticed the wound. To me, it doesn't look like a gash on wood, more like pleco's sucking on it, it's almost a perfect circle? Then it got progressivly worse which is why i pulled it into quarantine. All my problems seem to have started when i added the BN's and clowns

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