Frozen Blood Worms

[Vinni Smith]

I know. I just dropped the F Bomb on everyone. But I just don't get this one.

I have read all I can find on this forum about FBWs and I do understand that a lot of folks are very against feeding them because they can induce parasites. Even talked to Gabe P. about it in length. He talks as if you are pouring gasoline into the aquarium.

Yet, live black worms are ok??? I used to work at a fish store in CA back in the 80s. We sold all kinds of live stuff. Even live baby alligators! A lot of live food is grown in CA as you may know. Let me tell you, that is some nasty crap! I remember there being leaches and who knows what living in that stuff. I didn't even want to go near it but I had to. Looked bad and smelled bad. But the fish indeed loved it and I fed my discus with live tubifex worms for quite some time. We all did.

Also, I need to know how in the world would a parasite or egg live in frozen conditions? Does this mean they could survive the next Ice Age? I can indeed see how freeze drying them would be extremely safe, but not frozen? How about frozen in my deep freeze?

I have had 2 very good fish dealers tell me lately to feed some Blood Worms to the new arrivals. Both of them are excellent dealers.

I also read that Hikari is safer than San Francisco. Yet I have read posts of folks that have fed SFBW for years with no ill effects. Sorry for the pun...

I am in no way asking this to argue. It's just that I find so much conflicting info about this topic both on the internet and on the phone. So many folks that are in the know disagree on the topic.

I know these fish love them. And I really want to stay away from anything bad. But I also don't want to become an extremist. Help me out here.

[Iminit]

No no no!! Live black worms are not good food!! Pet stores do feed there discus black worms because fish love them but they are no good. Parasites and all sorts of bad stuff! Freeze dried black worms are what most feed their discus.

[coralbandit]

I would not feed live worms of any kind besides earth worms I caught myself .
I do feed freeze dried black worms and frozen blood worms regularly without concern .
Gabe just started selling meds ,did he by chance recommend any to you [you know sly salesman style ?] ..
I have read all the contradicting info also but let my own experience guide me as far as frozen blood worms .I always use Hikari and get 10-16 @1 lb flats fresh ordered when I need them from my LFS .
I try to talk my customers out feeding live black worms but it seems many think they are the best thing on earth so ?

[Vinni Smith]

No no no!! Live black worms are not good food!! Pet stores do feed there discus black worms because fish love them but they are no good. Parasites and all sorts of bad stuff! Freeze dried black worms are what most feed their discus.

Well, I definitely agree with you Bro. However, Gabe P. advocates feeding them but not frozen bloodworms. They say there is a difference in a bloodworm and a blackworm? Hmmmm. Not sure about that one.

Gabe even has a video about a blackwork cleaner and storage container.

[fljones3]

I have had problems with frozen bloodworms with my fish historically. Kenny feeds Hikari frozen bloodworms for years. I have used Hikari without issue myself (outside of my being allergic to them). I don’t use them presently but if I did, it would only be sporadic and Hikari.

[Willie]

There's a huge difference between blackworms and red worms.

Blackworms have very high bacterial loads. While discus love them, and they're a huge stimulus for breeding, the bacterial loads will eventually overcome the fish. Discus fed with blackworms will lose color, get a grayish coat, cloudy eyes, etc. I've never been able to treat a discus so it recovers. They don't die. You just end up with butt ugly, listless fish in your tank.

I know several local shops that feed blackworms to encourage mating and then sell the pairs for high prices. Once the public catches on, they went out of business. If Gabe recommends them, then shame on him. In contrast, freeze dried blackworms have been used for feed for several years now and no such problem has been reported.

In contrast, I've fed frozen blood worms for three decades with no problems. They are the larval form of a midge fairly common throughout the Midwest this time of year, so bacterial load is not a problem. Blood worms are not particularly high in protein, but discus loves them. So it's great to get newly shipped in discus to break their fast. Sometimes I'll feed frozen blood worms at night to discus that I'm power feeding to get more protein and calories into the fish. I don't use them regularly, but there are no pathogen issues that I've come across.

[Vinni Smith]

There's a huge difference between blackworms and red worms.

Blackworms have very high bacterial loads. While discus love them, and they're a huge stimulus for breeding, the bacterial loads will eventually overcome the fish. Discus fed with blackworms will lose color, get a grayish coat, cloudy eyes, etc. I've never been able to treat a discus so it recovers. They don't die. You just end up with butt ugly, listless fish in your tank.

I know several local shops that feed blackworms to encourage mating and then sell the pairs for high prices. Once the public catches on, they went out of business. If Gabe recommends them, then shame on him. In contrast, freeze dried blackworms have been used for feed for several years now and no such problem has been reported.

Willie, please watch this video and tell me what you think. I DO NOT agree with feeding live worms at all. Not after my experience with working with them.

I would not even bring them home for my chickens!

[Willie]

Looks like someone's trying to sell worm keepers. I have these in my cupboards from 15 yeas ago and haven't used them after I realized how dirty black worms are.

Unlike red worms, which are just larva from a midge, black worms live in mud. The cheapest way to raise them is in sewage. A couple of rinses is not going to do anything because their guts are filled with bacteria. I've visited wholesale businesses locally that bring in black worms in bulk. That water reeks of sewage when they open the bags. California Blackworms, which used to be a Simply sponsor, claims to raise theirs on clean food. I've never purchased black worms from them so I can't comment either way, although they've been a supplier of high quality ground beefheart for ~7 years now.

A lot of fish breeders around here use black worms to stimulate spawning. They seem to work well on small fish, who are probably not eating a lot. But discus? Never again.

[Iminit]

I’ve used the Cali freeze dried blackworms. No problems. I use the simply discus worm much more but f I need I’ll buy Cali. I also like the Cali flake foods with blackworms. All fish eat this and again no problems. Form what I’ve read over the years people have traced hith to bloodworms. People who feed frozen blood worms as there go to food. Because of this I only feed frozen or freeze dried bloodworms one to twice a week.

[LizStreithorst]

Back when I could afford the shipping I fed the heck out of live blackworms and frozen blood worms. I know that nobody will trust my fish to be free of disease and buy from me but these days I'm even having to feed freeze dried tubifex even though it's considered a sin. I don't know if it makes a difference but I only feed Haikari, The fish have shown no signs of illness so far.

[Vinni Smith]

these days I'm even having to feed freeze dried tubifex even though it's considered a sin.

What is wrong with freeze dried tubifex?

I

[coralbandit]

What is wrong with freeze dried tubifex?

I

Most tubifex come from China and have possible heavy metals and who knows what else in them ..

[LizStreithorst]

I made my choices according to my budget. If I screw up my fish it will be one more disaster of my own making.

[famtsberg]

I feed my discus and indeed all my fish a variety of frozen and freeze dried foods. I feed them frozen beef heart and frozen bloodworms. Freeze dried bloodworms. Flake food, bug bites, and pellet food for my bottom guys. I've noticed the discus grab some. Piggies gotta eat. They seem to enjoy the variety and are always eager to eat. It works for me and my fish are happy. Blackworms sound nasty. Raised in sewage. Work so hard to keep water clean and throw a wiggling turd in... Oh ya hot.

[Willie]

...Blackworms sound nasty. Raised in sewage. Work so hard to keep water clean and throw a wiggling turd in... Oh ya hot.

What I said, but so much clearer!