Two discus perhaps having issues?

[dandyale]

We have three discus in this 55g tank along with a dozen tetras. We recently noticed a couple of marks in the head of the orange and wild cross (see images; the third discus is not pictured), and the wild cross has been dark and hiding since we have had him. We do not know if they have some disease (I.e., hole in the head or internal parasites), if these are marks from fighting (they do it frequently; the blue and orange have tried to breed multiple times), or if the wild is just not well adapted to my water parameters. They all eat, but the wild usually gets harassed by the blue and then he hides for a bit. We wondered if adding more discus might help ease the stress in the tank, but wanted to see what you guys think before adding any fish. Thanks.

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

We have had these three discus since March. One orange, one blue, and one wild cross. The orange is usually pretty active and colorful, but recently we noticed some marks in his head and we have seen her have white stringy poop once. The wild cross doesn’t often show color and is somewhat fearful of us, and he has a mark or two on him. Blue has no problems we know of.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Orange: Marks on his head, white poop (although normal today). Slightly cloudy eyes
Wild cross: dark, marks on head, cloudy. Kind of skinny too (though he eats with the others, albeit less), usually hangs out in the back and definitely scared of us so will flee when we approach, even to feed

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Have tried no medications/treatments other than daily water changes for the last 3 days—50%.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

Tank is 55 gallons. Have had it running for 6 months
3 discus
10 red eyed tetras
3 neon tetras
Pleco

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

2-3 50% weekly

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

6 months. It has a 1” layer of sand and about another inch of soil underneath in the sides

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

We do not age our water

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

We use Seachem Prime. We add to barrel and then dechlorinate using a fountain pump to mix for about 30 mins

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 84-86

- ph 7.5

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 10

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water 0

- municipal water 100

- RO water 0


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

No

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

We usually feed 3x a day giving different foods at every feeding:
Tetra flakes
Omega cichlids pellets
Omega one brine shrimp—frozen
Omega one bloodworms—frozen
Sam Francisco Bay beefheart

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

https://imgur.com/gallery/k41ejWM

Thanks in advance,
Alex

[danotaylor]

G'day Alex. Those white dots are discus pimples and happen as a result of poor water quality. They can progress to hole in the head if left unchecked.
The very dark wild cross discus isn't looking good. How long has it been dark like that? Is it eating like the rest?
Are your nitrates 10 before or after your water changes? Whatever the answer, increasing the size or frequency is the answer to maintain nitrates <10 on your water change day. I would add 3-5tbsp/10gal salt as well and replace with water changes for 10-14 days, then reduce back to no salt gradually. I recommend you start aging your water before water changes. Micro bubbles from pressurized water service lines can/will make your fish stressed and prone to sickness. Heat and aerated the volume you want to change in a food grade barrel for 24 hrs before your water changes. Add prime as you transfer the aged water into your tank. This will also make a huge difference.
I would not recommend adding any more discus until this current situation is a thing of the past.
Keep us updated on your progress

[dandyale]

Thanks for the response. He has been dark basically since we got him, and he has been eating with the others; that’s why we were unsure whether or not he was even sick for a while. Nitrates about 10 (our test kit only shows increments of 20, so it’s difficult to estimate, though there is a tiny hue of color, indicating it’s between 0-20 but closer to 0) before WC. And okay, we can begin aging water and doing WC with salt, and will let you know how he does. Again, thanks for the response, I appreciate it! 👍🏻

Also do you mean daily WC? Or should I increase frequency to something more like 4-5x a week?

[dandyale]

Also, which kind of salt? Kosher or epsom? Just wanting to be sure before I add.

[fljones3]

Regular salt.

Also, which kind of salt? Kosher or epsom? Just wanting to be sure before I add.

[dandyale]

1-WEEK UPDATE:

We did a major change to the tank, including turning it into a bare bottom and painting the back white to lighten their environment. Their colors have been much better because of it. Also we began to age water before WC. Have aged the water for 2 days before, and doing a 50% every other day with appropriate amount of salt.

Orange’s wounds have closed up a bit: not as white, looking like they might be healing (see final photo on the link below. Her wound is up near her first bar on the forehead—all the way on the right, though it might be hard to see).

Wild Cross is MUCH more active. We actually changed our feeding method to feeding with tongs, and that has helped tremendously. Also showing more color, and wounds seem to be healing.

Blue wasn’t having any issues before, but we have noticed his top and bottom fins are looking a little jagged/torn up. They have all been more active, including fighting a bit more, so we do not know if this is the result of fighting/pecking or fin rot, etc.

Also, all of their eyes have become MUCH less cloudy.

Updated photos:
https://imgur.com/gallery/aXzfz0h

[danotaylor]

They all look a lot better. Keep doing what you're doing with water changes. The fin damage looks like ammonia burns. Are you sure you haven't had an ammonia spike during this process? Make sure you're adding Prime as you refill your tank as Prime only binds ammonia for 48 hours so your biofilter can remove it. If you add it when you fill your aging barrel then wait 48 hours you're basically adding the chloramines which are ammonia right into your tank.

[dandyale]

We’re pretty certain—ammonia is 0 now, and the fish haven’t been acting funny. We’ve been good about cleaning the bottom of the tank after feeding to avoid extra food/feces being left at the bottom. And we add prime to the barrel (while aerating) about 15 minutes before adding to the tank. Is there a more preferable way to do that? Thanks!

[danotaylor]

No, adding right before or as you change water is the correct way to dose Prime

[dandyale]

Okay, we will start dosing that way. Thank you much!

[LizStreithorst]

I would be tempted to give them a good worming with Levamisole. If they are eating well, they don't have hex. Although they do look much better than they did they still don't look right.

[dandyale]

Liz, thanks for the response. We have PraziPro at home, but no Levamisole (though we can purchase via Myrtle Beach Discus). I’m just curious, what is the difference? I’m not that well-versed in medications. Thanks!

[dandyale]

Doing some digging and found this post:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...use-Levamisole

It mentions that Levamisole is not effective at a pH higher than 7, and ours is 7.5. Is this accurate, or are there alternatives? Thanks.

[LizStreithorst]

People use Panacure but it has to be mixed in food as it doesn't dissolve well in water. I could be wrong about them needing worming. May be they just need more time to recover. But since my pH is 7.2 Levamisole is easy for me. I only treat them rarely, but after I treat I see an improvement.

[dandyale]

Liz, thanks for the response and info. I will order some Levamisole just in case and continue to watch their health/symptoms as we continue to treat with salt. We will keep you updated!