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Thread: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

  1. #1
    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Greetings Everyone!

    I’m so happy I found this forum. I am brand new to discus. It’s been my dream for a long time to get into the hobby of the most beautiful aquarium fish in the world. I never had the resources to make it happen until now and my goal is to create the best eco environment they need to thrive for many years. However, I am not good at chemistry and need help please.

    My aquarium is 75 gallons. Planted with natural sand over substrate. I have a piece of driftwood and rocks from a fish shop. I’ve been feeding the plants liquid food from Aqua Forest, recommend I do by the fish shop. I’ve been cycling for exactly 5 weeks. Algae bloomed and snails birthed from the plants about 2 weeks in. Water is crystal clear and everything is testing great with the exception of my ph.

    My water test kit came with 2 ph measures – low and high

    I am only using the water from my R/O faucet that comes out a 6.5ph. My problem is, as soon as that water goes into the aquarium, the ph rises to 7.6 when tested with the ‘low’ tester, and it measures 7.4ph on the ‘high’ tester.

    Questions – What is the difference between the high & low tester? What causes the different readings, and which should I trust?

    These ph levels have been stable over the 5 weeks, but I’m troubled why it’s rising when it goes into the aquarium and I want to avoid controlling this by adding chemicals if possible. Does anyone know what could be causing the R/O water to rise in ph when it goes into the tank? Should I be concerned?

    I asked my local fish shop about this yesterday and was told not to worry, that they hardly ever test their water. They use half R/O, half filtered water (whatever that is?) and have no issues. She offered to test my water and said everything was great and I was ready for fish. So I did get 10 jumbo neon tetra to see how they do for a few weeks. But I am afraid to get my first ever discus until I understand my ph rising issue and have it under complete control.

    I appreciate the advice and help!

  2. #2
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Hi Jenna and welcome to Simply. May I ask why you’re using RO water?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Hi Pat, thank you! I'm using R/O because of it's low ph, which is what I understood was best for discus. Perhaps not necessary, but best. If that's not accurate, please educate me. I'm new to this and want to learn from those who are in the hobby.

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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Jenna and welcome to Simply. May I ask why you’re using RO water?
    Pat
    Pat, are you thinking that pure RO water maybe too soft and that there might be a pH drop?. A consistent pH of 8.0 is okay for discus and better than having the pH drop from 8.0 down to 6.5 and back up again. Hard water with a high pH is difficult to adjust.My fish maintain well and will spawn at 7.6 to 7.8 tap water with only Prime added.

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    Registered Member BrendanJ23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    My 2 cents, invest in a quality digital PH tester such as HANNA. The liquid test kits such as API are very inaccurate by comparison.
    21 Discus, 7 Green Tree Frogs, 3 Eastern Dwarf Tree frogs, 1 Coastal Carpet Python,6 sawshelled/Murray river turtles, 2 dogs, a cat, 2 kids and a wife. Phew...what a mouthful


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Thank you Brendan, I will get one. Really appreciate it!!

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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Check your water hardness. If you have very low buffering capacity, pH can swing easier.

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    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    The main thing about PH is consistency. There are people on the forum with PH of 8. Mine are at PH of 6.8.
    What are the parameters coming out of the tap?

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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by peewee1 View Post
    Pat, are you thinking that pure RO water maybe too soft and that there might be a pH drop?. A consistent pH of 8.0 is okay for discus and better than having the pH drop from 8.0 down to 6.5 and back up again. Hard water with a high pH is difficult to adjust.My fish maintain well and will spawn at 7.6 to 7.8 tap water with only Prime added.
    I am thinking why RO. Expensive way to go plus generally not needed with domestics. Plus you generally get a low kH out of RO making maintaining a consistant ph difficult.

    Jenna, what's your tap water like?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  10. #10
    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Thank you everyone for the replies!

    I think I may have found the source of my rising ph issue. I took one of the rocks out I purchased at the fish shop, put in a bowl of my R/O water over night and this morning the water tested 7.2, up from 6.5. I thought rocks from a fish shop would be safe. Ugh. Anyone know if these rocks are harmful to discus? Should I remove them all?

    This is what I currently can test for, and my aquarium water parameters:

    Ph low test - 7.6ph
    Ph high test - 7.4ph
    Ammonia - 0.25ppm
    Nitrite (No2-) - 0 ppm
    Nitrate (No3-) - 0 ppm

    I don't have a water hardness test. However, I do have a soft water and 5 stage R/O system plumed in my home. So I have soft water out of my tap and I know 99.99% of the chlorine is removed. Both the tap and R/O faucet produce the same readings (above); all zeros, with the exception of the ph being the only difference: Out of tap: 8.0, out of R/O: 6.5.

    It is quite a pain just using the R/O, as it comes out slow so I am spending a lot of time waiting for water to fill a bowl and takes me a few days to fill my reserve just in time for a WC. I was hoping I could use the soft water from my tap or make a mix to save time and money but was worried about the higher ph.

    Do you all think I can use my tap soft water? Do I need to get a water hardness test, if yes please recommend one.

    Thank you all so much!!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    If you have soft water from the tap, and then put through an RO, it's going to have really low hardness (buffering capacity) as a result. Thus, easier ability to swing pH.

    The folks here can help you better than me (I'm not a discus expert). but I would consider aging your water from the tap for a few days, and seeing how the fish respond without RO additions. Or, potentially doing 50/50 RO/tap.

    Ask some of the folks on here who have accumulated a lot of experience.

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    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Thank you David, appreciate it!

    I've tested aging the tap water and the ph remains the same. But I am going to start doing a 50/50, monitor the ph for a few weeks and see how it goes. I've removed all the rocks as well, hopefully with just plants and driftwood it won't rise anymore. Finger's crossed!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Have you tested your tap water? Several of us, I for one, change water directly from tap to tank. I do that because the local water is 7.6 pH , Kh 59, and TDS of 80. The pH is always 7.6 day in and day out. Perhaps your tap water without R/0 or aging is acceptable for your fish?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    OK guys, what am I missing?
    I see a tank with only a few fish with a 0.25 ammonia level, and 0 nitrates. That reads uncycled to me.

    Jenna, fully agree with upgrade to a Hanna Ph tester to settle the issue. They also make alkalinity and CA and MG hardness testers. A little pricey but accurate. They also make an ammonia tester for that matter and it is always easier to use a digital scale vs a color matcher. Also agree with testing your tap water which may be fine for discus without any RO or maybe with a mix or RO and tap. Would recommend you age, heat and aerate your water if at all possible for 24 hours prior to water change. Also what is your filtration system, or did I miss that?

    An ammonia level of 0.25 is considered the upper limit of safe, so when did you test? Prior to or after changing your water?. If you test daily soon your ammonia should drop to 0, your nitrite will rise for about a week then go to 0 and then nitrates will rise and that you control with water changes.

  15. #15
    Registered Member JennaLuvsDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Please - Rising PH Issue

    Thank you Don!

    I've ordered a digital ph tester, should be here by end of the week. My tank filter is a Fluval 110 over the edge style.

    I tested today and ammonia and nitrates all zeros, ph though is still high at about 7.6 on my color chart. It can't be too bad in there, the plants and little tetra are absolutely thriving. I'm currently aging a mix of 50/50 RO & soft tap, with a bubbler and heater in there. So far I haven't had luck with aging dropping the ph any. Though with everyone's helpful advise, I'm not as concerned if the ph remains in the mid 7s as long as I can keep it consistent. And maybe the digital will give me a lower reading, finger's crossed! I can't imagine this 50/50 mix being bad even with a slightly higher ph. It's clean soft water void of chlorine. I'm afraid to mix in any city tap as I know that has almost toxic levels of chlorine.

    Once my digital tester arrives I'm going to do some WC tests and monitor for a couple more weeks. If things go well, I'm going to give it shot and get my first ever discus!!!

    Thank you All for the advise and help, greatly appreciated!!

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