Plants - Real & Fake

[above design]

Mark, my words, Mark, when I say that you are on the mark with this one. You may have a mark-etable idea here.

Dude!! You are a trip! Always on point lol

[Iminit]

Nice idea Mark. Only thing missing is the discus. They’re right now trying to cripple your internet! They’re thinking you may order some of Vinnie plants .

[above design]

Nice idea Mark. Only thing missing is the discus. They’re right now trying to cripple your internet! They’re thinking you may order some of Vinnie plants .

Oh they're here..... with my 2 live plants... baby steps lol 20200728_193201.jpg

[Oxboy]

BB in a show tank just looks bad. Unnatural. I get it for breeding, raising fry and hygiene purposes, but if you try to convince yourself it looks good sitting in your livingroom, you're being willfully ignorant IMHO. You have these beautiful fish, a cool piece of driftwood and some nice greenery all sitting on -- wait for it -- bare glass. Pro-BB showtankers have lost their objectivity.

[Willie]

BB in a show tank just looks bad. Unnatural. I get it for breeding, raising fry and hygiene purposes, but if you try to convince yourself it looks good sitting in your livingroom, you're being willfully ignorant IMHO. You have these beautiful fish, a cool piece of driftwood and some nice greenery all sitting on -- wait for it -- bare glass. Pro-BB showtankers have lost their objectivity.

I'm totally fine with how people would like to decorate their tanks: gravel, sand, barebottom, plants, potted plants, driftwood, plastic plants... I only object when the term "unnatural" is used to describe bare bottom tanks. Take a look at discus in its natural environment and tell me how many green plants you see?

Is all that Anubias any more natural than a Barbie themed tank?

Willie

[peewee1]

I'm totally fine with how people would like to decorate their tanks: gravel, sand, barebottom, plants, potted plants, driftwood, plastic plants... I only object when the term "unnatural" is used to describe bare bottom tanks. Take a look at discus in its natural environment and tell me how many green plants you see?

Is all that Anubias any more natural than a Barbie themed tank?

Willie

Willie, makes an unnatural point. In nature none of those plants, clear water, or sand. Dead sticks and a bun load of silt and muddy water. The Barbie Magic Treasure play set is the way to go, Willie. The fish could spawn on the chest or on Barbie herself.

[Vinni Smith]

We have two tanks that are not BB. Wifey's guppies and mollies. We have crushed coral as substrate because it tends to keep the PH higher. Every time I vacuum that gravel out, it makes me very glad my discus are in BB tanks. I am not obsessive about it and I am not a clean freak, but I just think their water is so much better because of it.

Speaking of water... I used to work at a lfs in CA. My boss always told me and the customers "If you want your fish to grow, change the water a lot". His reason was not the same though as many of you here on the forum. He said it was because the fish give off hormones. He believed all the hormones in the water is what would slow down the growth of the entire tank population. Now, this was back in the 80s. A lot of knowledge about our hobby has come about since then. However, I still wonder if there was some wisdom in what he said. If we have an active filter going and we are doing WC every day or every other day or even once per week, We are not changing the water because of ammonia, nitrite or even nitrates. A lot of folks say we are getting rid of toxins. I just wonder if Ted was right and we are getting rid of hormones???

When we were into the outside koi hobby, if you overstocked your pond they would refer to that as "the fish that is not there". Meaning all the fish would put off something in the water that, in their minds, added up to an extra fish or even multiple fish that are not in the pond. And we had great filtration and constant water trickling into our ponds turning over the pond in just a day or so. Those folks were filter crazy! Let me tell you. 8 foot tall filters that even looked like water heaters.

Really something to think about. What do you all think of this concept?

[peewee1]

Over time the water change has grown to become more of an obsession than a necessity I believe, Vinni. Going back 25 years when I breed wild discus for fun and profit. Back when an Alelrod book was my only guide. I recall that I had several bare 20 gallon tanks which included 2 fish, one flower pot, one heater and a plastic in tank filter box. The filter contained charcoal and peat moss. What I do not recall is making water changes. If I did it was seldom. I have increased of late the waster change because after buying my first ever TDS meter I learned that the water in my breeding tank read near 1,000. The fish have spawned twice in that tank and fry resulted. After changing the water 50% over a three day period the TDS has dropped to about 450 and the fish spawned again. I am not convinced that massive wather changes are necessary or even beneficial for my discus. What I do know is that I am not partial to plastic plants and I do agree with Willy in that while a decorated tank with a beautiful aquascape is pleasing to our eyes that it is not a natural setting for our discus while at the same time presenting us with a high maintenance opportunity.

[Iminit]

Yeah Vinnie we are definitely removing hormones. I think hormones are are part of why some discus stop eating. Just moved my non eater to a 15g with some Cory’s and first hour it was pecking food off the bottom. Go figure! I think they’re are more hormones with younger discus. That’s why we change more water.
It’s true what Willie says about there natural habitat. But in reality very few of us own one that is less than 50x removed from natural habitat. And none of these fish could possibly even genetically remember there past. Though there immediate past would find them in bare bottom breeding tanks. So I guess the bb is what they are most used too. This is why I beleive it’s best to start with young small fish when moving out of bb tanks. Older fish will be stressed. IMO .

[Oxboy]

I don't see many panes of glass lining the bottom of the Amazon. Only here and there. 😉

[Oxboy]

Yeah Vinnie we are definitely removing hormones. I think hormones are are part of why some discus stop eating. Just moved my non eater to a 15g with some Cory’s and first hour it was pecking food off the bottom. Go figure! I think they’re are more hormones with younger discus. That’s why we change more water.
It’s true what Willie says about there natural habitat. But in reality very few of us own one that is less than 50x removed from natural habitat. And none of these fish could possibly even genetically remember there past. Though there immediate past would find them in bare bottom breeding tanks. So I guess the bb is what they are most used too. This is why I beleive it’s best to start with young small fish when moving out of bb tanks. Older fish will be stressed. IMO .

Is there any scientific proof to the hormone theory?

[peewee1]

Yeah Vinnie we are definitely removing hormones. I think hormones are are part of why some discus stop eating. Just moved my non eater to a 15g with some Cory’s and first hour it was pecking food off the bottom. Go figure! I think they’re are more hormones with younger discus. That’s why we change more water.
It’s true what Willie says about there natural habitat. But in reality very few of us own one that is less than 50x removed from natural habitat. And none of these fish could possibly even genetically remember there past. Though there immediate past would find them in bare bottom breeding tanks. So I guess the bb is what they are most used too. This is why I beleive it’s best to start with young small fish when moving out of bb tanks. Older fish will be stressed. IMO .

Any creature not living in its wild habitat is one that is held in captivity. Humans being the exception. Instinctive behavior would be what controls captive fish regardless of their heritage I would think. What would happen if we were able to release an F3 discus into the Amazon? Would that fish adapt and survive?

[Iminit]

Maybe if it’s not eaten right away.
I have no scientific proof But I’ve read about it many times. Just my opinion.

[Vinni Smith]

Nice idea Mark. Only thing missing is the discus. They’re right now trying to cripple your internet! They’re thinking you may order some of Vinnie plants .

Uh, excuse me...
I prefer the term V-Plants.
It's more politically correct.
LOL

[Willie]

Willie, makes an unnatural point. In nature none of those plants, clear water, or sand. Dead sticks and a bun load of silt and muddy water. The Barbie Magic Treasure play set is the way to go, Willie. The fish could spawn on the chest or on Barbie herself.

Now you got me thinking. Maybe a Lego set up for our times?

Lego(AaMF9SP8sw0).jpg