Nitrites in aged water

[dspeers]

I looked hard at all of the reasonably priced testers, most depend on me to determine various shades of color, and frankly I suck. Some did not have the test to test reliability I wanted. I opted to go for the Hanna units, they are a little more pricey up front than others (especially when you buy several) but I didn't calculate the per test costs. Mainly this hits my 3 primary criteria: reproducibly accurate, easy to interpret (nothing easier than a number), idiot proof as in hard to screw up. Only problem is they currently do not have a fresh water checker for nitrates, but I asked and coming soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65gQyLAaZtE

Not sure if API is picking up something else, if you are going from 0 to 0.25 at 33 % your source is 0.75, below the 1.0 max concentration allowed so not sure if your water company or your testing is off. Regardless, I have never read anyone contesting the claim by Seachem that safe/prime effectively detoxifies nitrites for 24 hours. By then your biofilter has killed the nitrites so no issues. I like safe as I dislike purchasing water, just use the ammonia dose and be done with it. I also have not found any discussion that too much safe (aka ammonia dose) is unsafe.

[bluelagoon]

It says here that Prime does not detoxify nitrite or nitrate. https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/c...itritenitrate/

[dspeers]

Had not seen that, not sure what to make of it.
Seachem's comments:
Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Frankly I would be surprised if Seachem would be willing to be that actively deceptive, but it is indeed a possibility. I have questioned what sort of binder would work for 24 hours then stop. What happens to the binder? Regardless the only way to actually know would be to introduce a bunch of fish to lethal concentrations of NO2 with and without safe/prime and see if the outcome was different. If you go to the trouble to do that then if the prime/safe group does do better in the first 24 hours then see what happens after that. Split that group including the water in 2 and see if a second dose is also effective out to 48 hours.

There are stereotypic behaviors associated with sub-lethal levels of NO2. Due to the problems they experience in breathing normally, affected fish often gasp or hang at the surface where the oxygen content of the water is at its greatest. They'll usually move their gills more quickly, and may hold their fins close to their body.I wonder whether anyone else has used prime/safe in that setting and what their results were. If this stuff doesn't work it would be obvious as the fish would continue to deteriorate.

If one is unconvinced of the effectiveness of Prime/Safe, there is always the option of an aging barrel, seasoned sponge and 24 hours. No more ammonia or nitrite, and there are other benefits of 24 hours of seasoning. That's my design, primarily for pH stability, temperature control, and elimination of any risk of microbubbles/supersaturation.

[peewee1]

I daily water change at between 15% to 20% tap water with Prime. Because I have not noticed any death, issues, or stress with discus over a two year period I tend to believe the Seachem claim. The color test kits might be challenging for those who experience color blindness and if they are semi accurate are they in fact accurate enough to allow our water safe enough for our fish to thrive.

[Makko]

I cleaned my drum out and there was a lot of brown film on things. I’m pretty sure my drum was cycling. To keep things simple for me I eliminated the carbon filter I had been using. I don’t put safe in till just before my water change.

I no longer measure nitrites in my drum. I do have chlorine in the drum as expected. I looked up EPA water standards and nitrite isn’t allowed at levels we measure. So I think I’m good now, was just a learning experience.

I’m ordering some dither fish to make sure my tank is ok

[Megalodon]

Chloramines are ammonia. Using Prime, Safe, Chloram-X will detoxify chloramine for 48hrs and allow your biofilter to remove it.
If you feel your fish are suffering from some nitrite toxicity add some salt to your tank at 1-2tbsp/10 to reduce the toxicity to your fish

That's way more salt than you need for nitrite.

Hi Don,
Thanks for the information. My problem is I am measuring the Nitrites in the tap water right out of the spigot prior to any conditioning. The water company info says 0 Nitrites. That's why I was wondering if the API test kit is detecting something else. I am doing 33% water changes so the final concentration in the tank after the water change is low but detectable (0.25 ppm). The biofilter is removing it fairly quickly but at some point this will affect the fish I am guessing. I will try your suggestion. Thanks

There may be nitrification occurring somewhere in the tap water distribution system. Hot weather mean it's nitrification season.

Wayne, if you are aging your water then you can get nitrites from the ammonia released from the chloramine, because you have neutralized the free chlorine allowing bacterial activity. If not then the nitrites are probably not from that source but rather a contaminant in your tap. Either way you can use prime/safe to eliminate the toxic effects until your bacteria have time to neutralize or add a storage tank with a seasoned sponge and convert it to nitrates prior to ever introducing into your tank. The only real downside is that one of the goals of water changes is to keep nitrates low, since your tap already has some (from both the ammonia and nitrite) you have to change more water to get to your nitrate target(assuming you have one, some folks follow TDS).

Nitrifying bacteria function just fine in chlorinated water. In fact, they thrive in chloraminated water and convert ammonia to nitrite. It's a real nuisance for drinking water treatment plants.

I looked hard at all of the reasonably priced testers, most depend on me to determine various shades of color, and frankly I suck. Some did not have the test to test reliability I wanted. I opted to go for the Hanna units, they are a little more pricey up front than others (especially when you buy several) but I didn't calculate the per test costs. Mainly this hits my 3 primary criteria: reproducibly accurate, easy to interpret (nothing easier than a number), idiot proof as in hard to screw up. Only problem is they currently do not have a fresh water checker for nitrates, but I asked and coming soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65gQyLAaZtE

Not sure if API is picking up something else, if you are going from 0 to 0.25 at 33 % your source is 0.75, below the 1.0 max concentration allowed so not sure if your water company or your testing is off. Regardless, I have never read anyone contesting the claim by Seachem that safe/prime effectively detoxifies nitrites for 24 hours. By then your biofilter has killed the nitrites so no issues. I like safe as I dislike purchasing water, just use the ammonia dose and be done with it. I also have not found any discussion that too much safe (aka ammonia dose) is unsafe.

As with nitrate, the rest of the world uses different units than aquarists. The 1 ppm nitrite-nitrogen limit is 3.3 ppm nitrite.

I daily water change at between 15% to 20% tap water with Prime. Because I have not noticed any death, issues, or stress with discus over a two year period I tend to believe the Seachem claim.

Without a control group, we have no way of knowing. They might have been fine if you used sodium thiosulfate instead. Fish can tolerate much higher levels of nitrite than aquarists believe. It's also highly dependent on chloride levels. Aquarists think any detectable nitrite is lethal so when their fish survive they credit Prime. The fish probably would have survived without Prime.