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Thread: Sand or Gravel

  1. #1
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Sand or Gravel

    OK guys and gals.
    I am tired of the BB tank in my house.
    Not tired of the maintenance.
    Just tired of looking at the poo all day until the next WC.
    BEAUTIFUL right after the WC. Just gorgeous.
    Especially in this acrylic tank with no bottom trim.
    For about 1 hour.
    Then.....

    So, I am off to Aquatic Critter today for substrate.
    I am going to use very little.

    Should it be sand or gravel?

    Thinking either a very coarse sand or a very fine gravel.
    Am I thinking correctly?

    Almost every tank I see in videos on youtube have sand.
    But they are also planted tanks.
    No plans here for live plants.
    Been there, done that, bought the shirt.
    But I think I may replace some of my plastic plants with branchy driftwood.

    Also, a side note off this subject...
    Pet Supermarket is right down the road from us.
    They get their fish from Sun Pets in Florida.
    I don't know if it is the fish stock to begin with or the way the girls in the store take care of the fish.
    They are all the strongest, best fish I have ever bought from a LFS.
    They even carry discus. Nothing to brag about. Only some Red Turqs and Blue Diamonds and they are all just under 3" for $30
    Not the prettiest fish I have seen but boy are they strong and healthy!
    Relocated a lot of our smaller discus into the new 112 in the shop office.
    But not this little Red Turq that I got from Pet Supermarket a couple of months ago.
    That little guy rules this big tank and the big discus.
    What do you think?
    Is it the stock they are getting in from Sun Pet or the way they take care of them?
    Last edited by Vinni Smith; 08-22-2020 at 09:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Hi Vinni, if this is a growout tank I suggest you keep it bare bottom. If you insist on a substrate I would suggest a fine white sand and just enough to cover the bottom. Maybe 1/4 inch thick. The courser the substrate the more likely it will trap junk.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  3. #3
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Vinni, if this is a growout tank I suggest you keep it bare bottom. If you insist on a substrate I would suggest a fine white sand and just enough to cover the bottom. Maybe 1/4 inch thick. The courser the substrate the more likely it will trap junk.
    Pat
    Not a grow out tank. Just my favorite big fish from Miranda are in that tank.
    Other than the little Turq I mentioned earlier.

    How does the fine sand do with the vacuum during WC?
    That is my only concern with sand.
    I can see how it would be much better otherwise.
    Was just afraid it would all go out the tube when vacuuming.

  4. #4
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Be sure to not get the play sand Vinni. Get PFS (pool filter sand) and you want it to be inert so it does not affect ph.
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  5. #5
    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Not sure pool sand is going to solve your "seeing poop" everywhere. Gravel will bring into play possible long-term consequences. I have had both. Removed both. You could paint the bottom (on the underside) whatever color you desire. On my 75g, I put a cork underbottom which darkened the bottom while keeping the convenience of BB. You still see the poop but you will with any substrate (unless it falls between pebbles, but that's another issue).

    The book of Proverbs says that where no oxen are, the crib is clean. As long as you have oxen (discus) you will see waste products.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni Smith View Post
    Not a grow out tank. Just my favorite big fish from Miranda are in that tank.
    Other than the little Turq I mentioned earlier.

    How does the fine sand do with the vacuum during WC?
    That is my only concern with sand.
    I can see how it would be much better otherwise.
    Was just afraid it would all go out the tube when vacuuming.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    With white or light color sand you will still see the poo. What I would work on if I were you is to develop a solutionthat would not harm the fish but would act to dissolve the poo. Name it "No Poo" and you will make a million dollars.

  7. #7
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by peewee1 View Post
    With white or light color sand you will still see the poo. What I would work on if I were you is to develop a solutionthat would not harm the fish but would act to dissolve the poo. Name it "No Poo" and you will make a million dollars.
    Yep, ya know what that solution is really called?
    Another Rob fantail goldfish!
    Maybe a red cap Ryukin this time

    The discus sure do love this one I have.
    They sometimes go over and saddle up next to him.
    Kind of like when I used to have saltwater and the angels would belly up to the cleaner wrasses.

    The mating pair downstairs almost look like they are kissing the goldfish.
    Especially the big red discus.

    I know a lot of folks here just cringe when they think of goldfish with discus, but it really is working well for me.
    Last edited by Vinni Smith; 08-22-2020 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #8
    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Increasing water movement along the bottom will collect the poo in an area but will also work on dissolving it in the water column. It can be a dramatic difference.
    Then, it's removed by WC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni Smith View Post
    Yep, ya know what that solution is really called?
    Another Rob fantail goldfish!

  9. #9
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    I just did a WC and ya know what most of that is on the bottom?
    Algae.
    Some poop but mostly just green and brown algae.
    I think it shows up so well because there is no trim on the sides.
    That clear acrylic transfers colors as well as light.

    Maybe it would be good if I just left the green algae there and siphoned out the poop.
    A nice thick carpet of green would look good to me.

  10. #10
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by fljones3 View Post
    Increasing water movement along the bottom will collect the poo in an area but will also work on dissolving it in the water column. It can be a dramatic difference.
    Then, it's removed by WC.

    That is what is happening at this time.
    It collects right in the middle.
    It would be better if a corner was chosen.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Buy a bag of pool filter sand, wash it thoroughly in a bucket and throw in a 1/2" layer. If you don't like it, syphon it all out. No harm to the fish or wallet.

  12. #12
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxboy View Post
    Buy a bag of pool filter sand, wash it thoroughly in a bucket and throw in a 1/2" layer. If you don't like it, syphon it all out. No harm to the fish or wallet.
    When you say siphon it all out, that is exactly what I am concerned about using sand. I don't want to fight it trying to get it to stay in the aquarium when I am cleaning it with the siphon.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni Smith View Post
    Yep, ya know what that solution is really called?
    Another Rob fantail goldfish!
    Maybe a red cap Ryukin this time

    The discus sure do love this one I have.
    They sometimes go over and saddle up next to him.
    Kind of like when I used to have saltwater and the angels would belly up to the cleaner wrasses.

    The mating pair downstairs almost look like they are kissing the goldfish.
    Especially the big red discus.

    I know a lot of folks here just cringe when they think of goldfish with discus, but it really is working well for me.
    You could name the new goldfish "Nopoo" or even "Poocuum"

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni Smith View Post
    When you say siphon it all out, that is exactly what I am concerned about using sand. I don't want to fight it trying to get it to stay in the aquarium when I am cleaning it with the siphon.
    You are stressing too much over this.

    It all depends on the diameter and length of your siphon end. A 2" diameter siphon tool with a long neck like a standard WC Python will have little power to suck up sand and maybe even poo. A 1/2" diameter hose with no tool on the end will suck up a ton of sand if you accidentally create a vacuum instead of skimming over the substrate.

    it takes a little practice.

  15. #15
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sand or Gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxboy View Post
    You are stressing too much over this.

    It all depends on the diameter and length of your siphon end. A 2" diameter siphon tool with a long neck like a standard WC Python will have little power to suck up sand and maybe even poo. A 1/2" diameter hose with no tool on the end will suck up a ton of sand if you accidentally create a vacuum instead of skimming over the substrate.

    it takes a little practice.
    That helps a lot

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