headstanding, clamped bottom fins

[kerrie6703]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to this site, have kept discus for four years.

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Suddenly I seem to be having issues with 2 of my pidgeon bloods.
1. One has stopped eating - 4 days now, all other behaviour normal, although at times quiet.
2. One has begun headstanding with bottom fins clamped - 2 days now, all other behaviour & eating normal.

Both are and have always been the dominant fish in the tank.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
No treatments as yet.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
180L x 4yrs old. 3x discus (nose tip to end of tail 14cm)


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Once per week - 40-50%. Daily vacuum.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
4yrs running, gravel bottom - small river stone x 1/2 - 1in deep.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No.


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Seachem Prime - added to tank at water change.


9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ___28 celsius__

- ph ___6.0__

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading __5-10__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __Y__

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
'Tropical' Discus Gran. 'Tetra' TetraMin tropical crisps.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[kerrie6703]

[QUOTE=kerrie6703;1345456]Hi all, I'm a newbie to this site, have kept discus for four years.

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Suddenly I seem to be having issues with 2 of my pidgeon bloods.
1. One has stopped eating - 4 days now, all other behaviour normal, although at times quiet.
2. One has begun headstanding with bottom fins clamped - 2 days now, all other behaviour & eating normal.

Both are and have always been the dominant fish in the tank.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
No treatments as yet.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
180L x 4yrs old. 3x discus (nose tip to end of tail 14cm)


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Once per week - 40-50%. Daily vacuum.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
4yrs running, gravel bottom - small river stone x 1/2 - 1in deep.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No.


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Seachem Prime - added to tank at water change.


9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ___28 celsius__

- ph ___6.0__

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading __5-10__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __Y__

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
'Tropical' Discus Gran. 'Tetra' TetraMin tropical crisps.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[kerrie6703]

Reply to my own thread - posted a Q 12hrs ago (im a newbie) I presumed this was a site which is frequented by other disucs owners. So far, very disappointing, considering the 'number' of members of this site.

I hope 'newbies' to the site aren't ignored due to 'inexperience'.

So far, not impressed.

[jeep]

Sorry, but 9pm on a Saturday night isn't the best time receive an immediate response. And, it could be that the people who have seen your post aren't comfortable diagnosing a potentially tricky issue.

It seems that your fish may have a bacterial issue, but a close up photo would help to confirm. Do you see any swelling in the mid section of the body or in the stomach area?

[Iminit]

Again sat night is tough for replies. What I see is a 40g tank only getting its water changed once a week. I’d start with changing 20g daily and see what happens. Even though you only have 3 they still need clean water. Next if your only feeding the tetra bits you need some different foods. Freeze dried black worm are good black worm flakes also are good nutri diet discus flakes help too.
Also pics will help

[kerrie6703]

Again sat night is tough for replies. What I see is a 40g tank only getting its water changed once a week. I’d start with changing 20g daily and see what happens. Even though you only have 3 they still need clean water. Next if your only feeding the tetra bits you need some different foods. Freeze dried black worm are good black worm flakes also are good nutri diet discus flakes help too.
Also pics will help

food has nothing to do with it.
1. I didn't say I was only feeding the tetra bits.
2. Freeze dried black worm can potentially contain parasites.

[kerrie6703]

There is no apparent swelling on the body of either ailing fish.
What outward signs would indicate a bacterial issue?
How would a bacterial issue be treated?

My pic will not download.

[Iminit]

Ok for the pic it’s the third icon on the right.1519B15B-10AD-40C3-824B-2602D603A39B.jpg you have to resize it to large than post.
As to food it’s just what I saw. Fdbw will not have parisites. Live or frozen will. But like I said change the water daily and see what happens.

[kerrie6703]

I cannot view that toolbar on my screen.

Never mind.

[jeep]

Without knowing more or seeing a photo, I would suggest adding 1 tablespoon of epsom salts per 10 gallons and see if there's a change. If it's a blockage, this may correct it fairly quickly. If it's an infection, you may be limited to access of the meds we typically use, but Kanamycin is a good choice, Kanaplex may work is you can't get the pure stuff.

Look 2/3rds of the way back along the mid section. Do you see a slight bulge?

[seanyuki]

Headstanding, Loss of Balance

Usually loss of balance is caused by one of the following conditions:
a Water quality: Poor water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, foul water)
b Digestive system blockages: Dry foods that swell up inside fish, parasites (flagellates or worms) (usually bloating is visible)
c Swimbladder problem: Bacterial, drop in temperature, flagellates, tumor (Untergasser, 1989)
d Medication reaction
e Blood flagellates (Untergasser, Handbook Fish Diseases, 1989 by TFH Publications)

Treatment
a Check water parameters, do large water changes
b Look for bloat, add Epsom salt 1 to 2 tablespoons/10 gallons, treat for internal parasites if Epsom salt does not relieve bloat
c Sometimes a pH of 5.0 to 6.0 may help if it is infection
d Salt at 1 to 2 tablespoons/10 gallons help ease stress and fight infection
e Antibiotics may help
Source
Handbook of Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser, TFH Publications, Inc 1989


http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...standing.shtml

[kerrie6703]

Tom, thanks for your advice re more regular water changes. Have taken it on board.

Cheers

[kerrie6703]

Thanks Brian. No, there is no bulge, if anything there appears to be a sunken look in that area.

[kerrie6703]

Francis thanks very much. I have actually just got my hands on a copy of this book.

Lots of reading to do.

[kerrie6703]

I have tried this Tom. No luck. Download failed !