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Thread: Can someone help me identify my discus

  1. #16
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Dennis (Dennis Discus Fish) another SD site sponsor has some very nice deep red rafflesia and royal reds for sale right now, as well as some outrageously bright royal yellows.
    You will need to be careful what you feed in terms of commercial pellets or flake as almost all contain carotine & astaxanthanin which will turn your yellow discus orange.
    I hope your CC company works with you to get your refund Daphne! Did you happen to takes pics of the DOA's still in their bags?

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    I don't believe these fish will change their coloration or pattern at all. They'll likely look the same or more faded as the fish gets bigger.

    Willie
    If anyone would know about color you would, Willie. That suggest, however, that any of the various color enhancing foods as somewhat akin to snake oil marketing.

    TetraColor This natural color-enhancing food is a wonderful supplement to the diet of any tropical fish. Tropical Color Flakes promote beautiful color in all tropical fish and can be fed daily, alternating with Spirulina foods and treats. Enhanced with vitamin C and the patented health enhancing ProCare from TetraMin®.

    BUG BITES™ are more than just insects. We’ve included other excellent protein sources like whole salmon, which is rich in Omega 3 and 6 for healthy skin, scales, fins and colors. Note: salmon. The foods that salmon eat are what generates the red flesh in the fish.

    Vibra Bites® Another Hikari® world first, a blood-worm-like stick that offers outstanding nutrition and color enhancing capacity you have to see to believe. An outstanding addition to any daily feeding plan, this uniquely formulated diet will offer growth and immune system support too!

    AguticSuppliers Now we are proud to offer a formulation designed to help bring out the Reds and Orange colors of your fish..Our "Bio-Pigment Plus" is a blend of Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms, baby Spinach, Spirulina, and Carophyl Pink. An excellent COLOR ENHANCER FOR REDS AND ORANGES in Fish. Not suited for light colored, albino or yellow fish as it may affect their color. (I purposely feed the bio pigment plus to an Albino millennium Gold discus which is a lemon drop yellow color to change its color to butterscotch. It is a very nice looking fish.

    Omega one is one of the best brands of premium fish food with whole salmon in flakes as the top ingredient. Omega’s super color flakes are good color boosters and are nutritionally balanced with enhancements in the form of elevated beta carotenes derived from salmon skin.

    Yellow and Red shades are the two colors most effectively influenced by color enhancing foods, which utilize the chromatophores. However, protein and foods such as seaweed can also work hand & hand with the chromatophores to produce brilliant blues, purples and greens in fish. For example, Flamingo feathers aren’t naturally pink, but get that way from accumulating carotenoids in the crustaceans and algae that the flamingoes eat. In zoos, flamingos are given feed with a carotenoid (canthaxanthin) in it to keep up their color. Carotenoids range from red, to orange to yellow. Most commercial color formulas contain astaxanthin, a red carotenoid that can bring out red color.

    A series of experiments by researchers at Hawaii’s College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources showed that adding the bacteria, Haematococcus pluvialis, which contains astaxanthin and other carotenoids, to fish foodd worked to intensified the colors of red velvet swordtails, topaz cichlids, forktail rainbowfish, and, to a lesser degree, 24K mollies and kissing gouramis. Discus breeders often add paprika to their home-made discus food recipies. Paprika, is made from a ground, dried pepper, Capsicum annuum. Paprika is rich in a number of carotenoids, including beta carotene, capsanthin and capsorubin.

    to Willie's point there is a challenge in replicating the natural color of fish, with some having faded shades.Only foods enhanced with carotenoids have performed effectively and consistently with respect to improving a fish's coloration.

  3. #18
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by daphne View Post
    ... the yellow stripped face turn solid white and the spots in the body fade as they grow?...
    My comments were meant to address the specific questions above, which is that the stripped face will not turn solid white and the spots on the body will not fade. There are specific examples cited by hobbyist where red pigments in the feed have altered the appearance of the fish. I hasten to point out, however, that many red pigments do not.

    Astaxanthin, for example, is considered the premium pigment for adding red color. There is actually an entire family of astaxanthin pigments sold, which ranges from a warm yellow to a dark red. Having worked in aquaculture, I can say with certainty that the pigments turns the flesh of salmon red, but at all not the scales.

    I've used both paprika and beta carotene mixed into beefheart and have seen no effect (although carotene turns the turds black - so we know it's digested and absorbed). Carotenoids will color fish, but usually only when other ingredients such as spirulina and spinach greens are included. I've always wondered whether carotenoids are limiting or other factors improve nutrition and facilitate carotenoid translocation into chromaphores on the epidermis.

    In summary, there is a lot of snake oil in the fish food business. I'm not saying everything is suspect, but not everything works as promoted.

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    I knew that Willie would know about this and have his usual qualified opinion. True that salmon flesh is red and except for the sockeye salmon the scales are silver. As salmon approach their spawning grounds they begin to absorb their scales. The carotenoid pigments in their flesh are transferred to the skin and eggs. ... The red skin makes them more visible and may signal their readiness to spawn. The pigments may also help the fish absorb oxygen from the water. Omega 3 rich diet in part influence colors in salmon. No telling if a discus would ever absorb their scales as do salmon yet perhaps that process does occur with discus to some extent as well. We do know that discus can instantly change their shade, they become darker when spawning, do they not?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    It will not harm to try feeding color enhancement foods. The fish have to eat something. This will be a good experiment and it may work out for you.

  6. #21
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    My comments were meant to address the specific questions above, which is that the stripped face will not turn solid white and the spots on the body will not fade. There are specific examples cited by hobbyist where red pigments in the feed have altered the appearance of the fish. I hasten to point out, however, that many red pigments do not.

    Astaxanthin, for example, is considered the premium pigment for adding red color. There is actually an entire family of astaxanthin pigments sold, which ranges from a warm yellow to a dark red. Having worked in aquaculture, I can say with certainty that the pigments turns the flesh of salmon red, but at all not the scales.

    I've used both paprika and beta carotene mixed into beefheart and have seen no effect (although carotene turns the turds black - so we know it's digested and absorbed). Carotenoids will color fish, but usually only when other ingredients such as spirulina and spinach greens are included. I've always wondered whether carotenoids are limiting or other factors improve nutrition and facilitate carotenoid translocation into chromaphores on the epidermis.

    In summary, there is a lot of snake oil in the fish food business. I'm not saying everything is suspect, but not everything works as promoted.

    Willie
    Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  7. #22
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Here's a couple of pics of a royal yellow (purchased from Dennis of DDF) I used to own & feed soley on pure deer heart, no additives, and the the same fish after 6 months with it's new owner being feed a commercial flake food containing astaxanthin. Obviously the picture/water quality is different, but you can see clearly that the fish has turned from bright yellow to reddish- orange.

    20181015_203907.jpg

    2000000000007019~4.jpg

    I was merely making the suggestion to bring awareness to Daphne that her yellow discus may change color as mine did with commercial foods

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by peewee1 View Post
    It will not harm to try feeding color enhancement foods. The fish have to eat something. This will be a good experiment and it may work out for you.
    Thank you for all the food tips. I purchased them at 3" to 3-1/2", they are about 1/2" bigger now. So I am feeding 4 times a day, I rotate the food type. This is what I am feeding.
    FOOD.jpg

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Dennis (Dennis Discus Fish) another SD site sponsor has some very nice deep red rafflesia and royal reds for sale right now, as well as some outrageously bright royal yellows.
    You will need to be careful what you feed in terms of commercial pellets or flake as almost all contain carotine & astaxanthanin which will turn your yellow discus orange.
    I hope your CC company works with you to get your refund Daphne! Did you happen to takes pics of the DOA's still in their bags?
    Yes the CC i son it, it will take a while to resolve. Thank you

  10. #25
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    Wink Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Here are the rest of them:
    D12a.jpg
    D12.jpg
    it was supposed to be this:
    50609366_10216445082292476_7251431205550161920_n-600x800.jpg

    then this one:
    D11.jpg
    it was supposed to be this:
    3a1da0_4b2470d924b048a38f13e5d1949275famv2_d_4032_3024_s_4_2-600x337.jpg

    this one:
    D13.jpg
    was supposed to be this:
    Golden-Valentine-5in-0-600x337.jpg

    Finally this little yellow Rafflesia I purchased from Myrtle Beach Discus, it came healthy and looking as expected (3"), it was eating withing 1 hour, very social with people and gentle in the tank.
    D14.jpg

    here are views or the rest of the set up - I should have whipped the exterior of the tank first
    D10.jpg
    D9.jpg

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
    Pat
    Pat, Willie will have his own experience to draw from in addition to his expertise one study found that discus fed astaxanthin and Beta carotene (orange) intensified the fish's blue coloring. I had read that blue is a reflection ( iridescence) not actual blue color. To know might take some additional research. Consider spirulana is a blue green algea that next to Carotenoids also contains Fycocyanin proteins. An experiment opportunity is at hand here.

  12. #27
    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    It can be very frustrating as you know Daphne when you buy fish from pics that are "examples" of what you will get vs. the actually fish you are getting. The ole bait & switch leaves a sour taste in ones mouth for sure. Nothing worse than being so excited to open your new box of fish and get heart broken immediately. Sadly the examples you were sent, even with the best of care, do not have the genetic potential to be any thing like those other pictures used to procure your business..

    All of the SD sponsors have been vetted by site owner Al Sabetta, and provide updated pics/vids of the actual fish in each shipment. Most of them will then send you pics/vid of the exact fish during the selection process. They want you to be happy because their reputation here depends on customer satisfaction and word of mouth.

    Again, I am so bummed for you that you didn't get what you believed you were paying for. If you have the financial resources, you could talk with your local fish store to see if they will take the ones you have and give you store credit to use for foods, conditioners etc, and start a fresh with an SD sponsor.

  13. #28
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Wow!! That’s terrible! Put the pics in the review. Wondering if you could talk to the better business bureau on bait and switch.
    The first one looks like it came from a Wattley’s red turquoise (guessing here) and the red may develop across the rest of it body like the top. But never like what you thought you were buying. The second fish is stunted and shouldn’t have been sold. The rest are just average discus and could be bought at a local pet store. As a beginner these are good first fish. (Except that second one). Yellows are hard to keep yellow. A lot turn orange because of food.
    How big is your tank? How often are you changing water? Even though there not the best they will still grow some a color up some more and need clean water. Again to me a great beginner group of discus. I just hope he didn’t overprice those fish. My fish are all beginner quality too and I’m very happy with them.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    Wow!! That’s terrible! Put the pics in the review. Wondering if you could talk to the better business bureau on bait and switch.
    The first one looks like it came from a Wattley’s red turquoise (guessing here) and the red may develop across the rest of it body like the top. But never like what you thought you were buying. The second fish is stunted and shouldn’t have been sold. The rest are just average discus and could be bought at a local pet store. As a beginner these are good first fish. (Except that second one). Yellows are hard to keep yellow. A lot turn orange because of food.
    How big is your tank? How often are you changing water? Even though there not the best they will still grow some a color up some more and need clean water. Again to me a great beginner group of discus. I just hope he didn’t overprice those fish. My fish are all beginner quality too and I’m very happy with them.
    Thank you for your response. The tank is 75. I have been changing 15 to 20% of the water every other day. I treat the water first by running it through my Burkey filter and add the seachem discus trace, discus buffer, prime and stability, and some fluval biological enhancer each time with the new water. I also keep my temperature at 88 for now.

  15. #30
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone help me identify my discus

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
    Pat
    Sorry, I don't know of any good way to do this. I know a seller (still selling today) who used to add testosterone to the water and sell his fish as Powder Blue Discus!

    Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

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