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Thread: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clarity

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    Default Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clarity

    Hello Everyone,

    I am looking for advise for anyone who has seen something similar or can offer some suggestions about how to avoid this situation for the next spawning to help improve the yield of viable offspring.

    These parents (blue tiger & blue cobalt [not confirmed]) have spawned and successfully bred numerous times over the past couple months. The water parameters are 'perfect', (750 gallon central filtration system).

    These eggs became free swimming 9 hours ago. The tank is 30 gallon size, and the water level is low (just above the parents heads). I note that this spawn is a 'big spawn', but I see that quiet a few of the fry seem to be on the tank bottom instead of attaching to the parents.

    I appreciate that its imperative that the fry attach to the parents as quickly as possible to ensure they suribie the first few hours and days.

    I can hazard a few guesses as to what is going on but thoughts are appreciated.

    1.) there are too many fry fighting for space to eat of the muscus, and the 'stronger' fry are getting prime feeding positions and these are the fry that cannot 'get a seat at the table'.

    2.) these fry are weaker, (either didn't get to parents after eggsack consumed or genetic abormalities).

    3.) these fry are genetically weaker to pathogenic attack, and are suffering malaise from waterborne infections and are 'too weak to swim to parents mucus' for feeding.

    I note that when I use a turkey baster to 'flush' water down the side of the tank this 'kicks up' the fry that are stranded on the bottom and then they appear to latch onto parents, but this solution (if it is a solution - it knocks other fry off of the parents) does not appear a long term solution.

    If what I am witnessesing just a normal part of the discus reproductive cycle? In that, a large number of fry will not be viable and die off almost immedialty?

    I did notice that a number of wigglers were in close proximity to some fungal eggs that the parents had not eaten. Normally these parents move the wigglers off the fungal eggs and eat the fungal eggs, but this time they did not. When the first wigglers became free swimming I use the turkey baster to 'flush the other eggs' off of the plant pot they had been attached to. This technique worked perfectly with my other melons who's fry all instantly started looking for mom & dad and attached without problems (with a blue light).
    I noticed that enough of the wigglers where still attached to 'fuzzy' clumps of fungal eggs, in which the parents eat the fungal almogaoration (with wigglers attached) then proceeded to spit out the fry free of fungal eggs. Could it be a case that some of the wigglers have been affected by proximity to the fungal eggs?


    On a side note when it comes to blue coloured discus what is the best light colour to help fry find parents? With these fish because they are blue, I was thinking that white lights (on a white background tanks) would be ideal, but would red be better for contrast?

    I know there is a lot to unpack in my post, oh, should have mentioned that the eggs were removed from the nursery tank when spawning occurred (when I found the eggs the next morning) and placed into MB bucket for 24 hours, and reunited with parents via cage, I have erred on the side of caution (when it comes to length of time the eggs are in MB to only 24 hours) because I have heard that if they become wigglers whilst MB is still in the water environment it can lead to problems.

    But if the fungus is the underlying problem, I can increase MB exposure to 48 hours, [ the dosage I am using is the recommended egg treatment (1 tsp/10 gallons)] but, if there is something else I am missing then please feel free to commend and share your experiences.

    I appreciate that relentless cleaning is the most effective remedy for most issues discus related, so there is daily 100% ++ water changes, PP weekly baths, scrubbing of tank sides and constant vacuuming.

    As mentioned all thoughts and recommendations will be greatly appreciated!


    im2.jpgime3.jpg

    https://youtu.be/fuQKnU9s6UQ

  2. #2
    Platinum Member fljones3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Try turning off the light. Just have ambient light.

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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Old wise man said to purposely lower the water level in the tank. It forces the fry to the parents. lmk

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    Registered Member Larry208's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    I have seen others use a blue light to help the fry attach. Keeping it on low over night might help.

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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Sliders

    Cliff

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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus View Post
    Sliders

    Cliff
    Hi Cliff, what causes belly sliders?
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    You're doing most everything right, so my comments are not going to turn things around. But they might help.

    1. My experience with spawns is that they're either very good or very bad. A good spawn will have 95%+ survival. A bad spawn will have < 10% survival. I don't get inbetween results. A good spawn of 150 fry does not necessarily produce higher percentage culls.
    2. I'd moved pairs with large spawns to larger tanks to make it easier for the parents to move around. Had a pair of huge Stenker snakeskins that I moved into a 55-gallon tank because the spawns were so big. A 30-gal may be awkward for large spawns.
    3. I noticed that Blue Diamonds had difficulty attaching in light blue backgrounds - possibly because the color makes the parents less distinguishable. Cary Strong had noticed the same thing. Never saw this problem with turquoise or brilliant strains.
    4. Is it possible to shut down the drip in a central filtration system? The parents shake to attract the fry, so turbulence in the water could confuse the fry. I often run into this problem with PB strains which do not darken during spawning.
    5. I usually keep the lights on to help the fry find the parents. Sometimes fry attach to the dark sponge filter when the parents cannot darken. In those cases, I pull the sponges for 24 hours.

    Good luck, Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Hi Cliff, what causes belly sliders?
    Pat
    Hi Pat,
    I can only tell you from what I'm seeing. I see the fry struggling swimming up probably from bladder problems. The egg sack should of been dissipated before free swimming this usually happens on day 7. Once the egg sag is dissipated the fry should swim to the surface.
    Some possible problems:
    Genetic
    Central filter system, share diseases
    MB overdosed, I use only 1 dope per gallon, remove MB one hour before hatching around

    Better luck on next spawn.

    I can't go into to much detail as this forum limits me a couple mins to post.
    Last edited by CliffsDiscus; 09-03-2020 at 01:40 PM.

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    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Cliff your input is so valuable to is here. Would it be possible to type responses onto a word doc then cut and paste the whole comment in one swift movement to the forum?
    Man I would hate for you to be shut down over a technical glitch. Your responses are well thought out and arise from many years of real life experience...we need you! Lol

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Thank you to everyone who posted their thoughts! There is much to process, and it seems that slight adjustments are what are necessary to ensure the spawning batch is has better vitality, survival rate and reduced growth/developmental abnormalities.

    I have the fish off the central system as soon as the wigglers are about to come free. I have sponge filters so I could take any tanks off the system when eggs / wigglers are in development as it seems that background microbes could negatively impact the development of the growing fry.

    Likewise it’s interesting to hear the thoughts about what indices “sliders” that their swim bladder doesn’t inflate. So clearly steps have to be taken to ensure the “trip” to the surface to inflate the bladder is not too distant a journey, and allow the egg yolk attached fry to stay on the pot as long as is necessary.

    Again thanks everyone for your tips and tricks, hadn’t thought about the air stone distracting the fry from parents, as of course they do twitch and shiver to attract the fry.

    All right, its time to go back to enjoying my Thursday evening with the wife and watch a movie.....
    But then again....
    That discus tank sides could do with a decent wipe down....
    Not even a fair contest!

    Thanks again !

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Cliff your input is so valuable to is here. Would it be possible to type responses onto a word doc then cut and paste the whole comment in one swift movement to the forum?
    Man I would hate for you to be shut down over a technical glitch. Your responses are well thought out and arise from many years of real life experience...we need you! Lol
    Dan, Thanks,
    I will make responses shorter before getting log out, this will still give the hobbyist some guidence. No word doc as I had quotes high jacked into
    Discus books published, this is a fishy business. There nothing I can do about this problem since they were no registered copyright in Washington.

    Cliff

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    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly Hatched Fry Unable To Attach to Parents? Pictures / Video provided for Clar

    Some people, sheesh!
    Thanks Cliff, so appreciate your input and willingness to share your wealth of knowledge

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