Discus not eating, white poop, Metro treatment didn't help

[kerrie6703]

at what intervals and dosages did you use the wormer plus and levamisole?

[kerrie6703]

Maz can you provide a timeline of what you've injected into your tank ie the metro, the wormer meds ..

[MazDiscus]

Dear Pat and Kerrie, here is the history of medication

- First round of Metro (Aug 27-Sept8): 800mg/10G with every other day 50% water changes but was dosing Metro daily, Temp at 88.
- Sept 8 to 12: just water changes and temp at 90
- Second round of Metro (Sept 12 -24): 800mg/10G with daily 50% water changes.
- Levamisole Sept 13: followed the instructions on package (1ml/1.3G) and planning to repeat in two weeks which will be Sept 27th.
- Wormer plus Sept 20: Since I didn't see improvement I used wormer plus and I doses 0.1gram/10G.
- Again no improvement and I started Praziquantel powder on Sept 24.

It seems that I am going backward here, now there are total of 4 fish not eating and have stringy poop occasionally. I really don't know what else to do. I understand that over medicating is bad but I wanted to rule out the worm...

@Pat: I was reading on this forum about dosing Praziquantel powder and people do that for 12 days with water changes and re-dosing (Al also recommended this dosing in one of the threads). So you say that I stop and don't do the 12 day treatment?

Thank you so much in advance, I really hope these fish come back...

[seanyuki]

To my understanding praziquantel 12 days treatments with water changes is to get rid off gill flukes and Al’s recommendation is to treat tape worms during quarantine period for new arrivals.

[Second Hand Pat]

Dear Pat and Kerrie, here is the history of medication

- First round of Metro (Aug 27-Sept8): 800mg/10G with every other day 50% water changes but was dosing Metro daily, Temp at 88.
- Sept 8 to 12: just water changes and temp at 90
- Second round of Metro (Sept 12 -24): 800mg/10G with daily 50% water changes.
- Levamisole Sept 13: followed the instructions on package (1ml/1.3G) and planning to repeat in two weeks which will be Sept 27th.
- Wormer plus Sept 20: Since I didn't see improvement I used wormer plus and I doses 0.1gram/10G.
- Again no improvement and I started Praziquantel powder on Sept 24.

It seems that I am going backward here, now there are total of 4 fish not eating and have stringy poop occasionally. I really don't know what else to do. I understand that over medicating is bad but I wanted to rule out the worm...

@Pat: I was reading on this forum about dosing Praziquantel powder and people do that for 12 days with water changes and re-dosing (Al also recommended this dosing in one of the threads). So you say that I stop and don't do the 12 day treatment?

Thank you so much in advance, I really hope these fish come back...

Maz, I am asking Brian to take a read thru. I am worried that all the meds might have made your situation with the fish worst. It is not a good thing to shotgun meds like this.
Pat

[jeep]

You’re putting way too many medications into the tank, which is stressing the fish out. I’d ditch the meds and just focus on higher heat and big daily water changes. It doesn’t look like worms to me, just a fish that hasn’t eaten much looking at the feces

Over medicating there is a danger of toxicity to the fish, frequently causing liver, kidney, or other organ damage that may or may not be reversible.

These 2 comments are spot on!

The feces in the first photo is not necessarily an indication of worms. And if it were, how do we know which worm it is? I'm usually not a fan of stopping meds prematurely, but in this case I would stop immediately. I would keep up the daily water changes and add 4 TBS salt per 10 gallons to try an flush the meds out of their system. Also 88-90 is not really an effective heat treatment. 93-94 is recommended to have an effect on protozoa along with the use of metro. Since they've already seen too much medication in such a short amount of time, I would run the 93 heat for 10-14 days (along with salt for 10 days) and make sure the aged water is temp matched to the tank. Discus can live a long time without eating and if the heat is successful you may not see them eat for another week after the temp is reduced. After 2+ weeks we may be able to reassess the issue, but for now these fish need time to recover...

[MazDiscus]

Maz, I am asking Brian to take a read thru. I am worried that all the meds might have made your situation with the fish worst. It is not a good thing to shotgun meds like this.
Pat

Thank you Pat. Based on the comments, I'll stop the medications with large water change and increase the temperature to 93 and use salt to take the meds out of their system. I'll keep doing the 50% daily water changes and hope they recover.

[MazDiscus]

These 2 comments are spot on!

The feces in the first photo is not necessarily an indication of worms. And if it were, how do we know which worm it is? I'm usually not a fan of stopping meds prematurely, but in this case I would stop immediately. I would keep up the daily water changes and add 4 TBS salt per 10 gallons to try an flush the meds out of their system. Also 88-90 is not really an effective heat treatment. 93-94 is recommended to have an effect on protozoa along with the use of metro. Since they've already seen too much medication in such a short amount of time, I would run the 93 heat for 10-14 days (along with salt for 10 days) and make sure the aged water is temp matched to the tank. Discus can live a long time without eating and if the heat is successful you may not see them eat for another week after the temp is reduced. After 2+ weeks we may be able to reassess the issue, but for now these fish need time to recover...

Thank you for taking time and providing instructions. I'll follow what you've mentioned and will keep you updated. Just one question about the salt... I have iodized salt, does that work or I should get pure salt?

Thanks,
Maz

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you for taking time and providing instructions. I'll follow what you've mentioned and will keep you updated. Just one question about the salt... I have iodized salt, does that work or I should get pure salt?

Thanks,
Maz

Hi Maz, iodized salt is fine.
Pat

[jeep]

Maz, any salt is fine as long as there are no additives like anti caking agents. I use solar salt from Home Depot and it's less than $5 for 50lbs. Aquarium salt is a rip off...

Also, raise the temp slowly over a few days and keep an eye on their breathing. Add extra air if you see them breathing heavy and keep temp a bit lower if you see them struggling. They may not respond well immediately since they're a bit stressed at the moment, but given enough time they should adapt to the higher heat.

[kerrie6703]

wow thats alot of meds!

i understand how worried and frustrated you must be, I was in the very same position just recently with my discus.

apologies for my (amateur) diagnosis of worms .. the long term members of the site are your best source for more accurate advice.

good luck with the heat treatment, makes sense to let them rest.

[MazDiscus]

Maz, any salt is fine as long as there are no additives like anti caking agents. I use solar salt from Home Depot and it's less than $5 for 50lbs. Aquarium salt is a rip off...

Also, raise the temp slowly over a few days and keep an eye on their breathing. Add extra air if you see them breathing heavy and keep temp a bit lower if you see them struggling. They may not respond well immediately since they're a bit stressed at the moment, but given enough time they should adapt to the higher heat.

Thanks, It's been 2 days that I've stopped medication and added salt. But it seems my heater can only go up to 92F, I can get another heater if 93-94F is necessary. I've noticed today that three fish have signs of fin/tail rot!! The tanks lights were off to reduce the stress on the fish and I didn't notice the problem with their fins earlier. It is really frustrating to see a problem after another... . What do you recommend at this point? I am worried the high temp accelerate the fin rot. Thanks again for all your help

[MazDiscus]

wow thats alot of meds!

i understand how worried and frustrated you must be, I was in the very same position just recently with my discus.

apologies for my (amateur) diagnosis of worms .. the long term members of the site are your best source for more accurate advice.

good luck with the heat treatment, makes sense to let them rest.

Yes it is really sad to see the fish that have been growing and coloring up so nicely are suffering now. Specially now that I've noticed fin rots on a few of those...

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes it is really sad to see the fish that have been growing and coloring up so nicely are suffering now. Specially now that I've noticed fin rots on a few of those...

Hi Maz, can you post a picture of the fins?
Pat

[MazDiscus]

Hi Maz, can you post a picture of the fins?
Pat

Hi Pat. Here are the pictures. It progressed quite a lot in the last 24h. with the white background it is difficult to see specially in the early stages.IMG_2488.jpg