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Thread: German and Asian

  1. #1
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    Default German and Asian

    Official statement from Stendker is that their discus can not be hosted together Asian fish:
    "Our STENDKER Discus Fish should therefore not be kept together with Asian offspring, even if the BU is compatible. Otherwise, either the advantages of our fish (easy to keep in almost any water as long as the pH value is below 8, low maintenance, water change of 30 percent once a week, also suitable for aquarium beginners) would be lost under Asian keeping conditions, or Asian discus fish, under European keeping conditions, could lose a lot of their life expectancy."

    I want to know your opinion. Is it really true?
    Last edited by pablos; 09-17-2020 at 02:05 AM.

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    Registered Member + MVP danotaylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Dude that image is completely inappropriate for this site. Not cool

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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by danotaylor View Post
    Dude that image is completely inappropriate for this site. Not cool
    Sorry.. removed

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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Stendker breeders are experts and as such their opinions and recommendations should be seriously considered. Two different fish evolved by years of breeding heading into a different direction. A polar bear looks like a bear but it is not a grizzly bear, which also looks like a bear. Yet both survive in much different environments. It's not unreasonable to believe the same with regard to a discus. Asian vs European. If we could would we breed a polar with a grizzly with a brown bear? Where would such a bear live? Would the off spring be more or lest successful at survival? Stendker were carefully bred for advantage. The beginner's discus. Some thought went into their development. Leaving Asian discus breed for mass production without regard for much else. According to Stendker. What they are suggesting seems reasonable to me. The two are not the same discus.

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    Registered Member coralbandit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Most do not mix Asian and German as there seems to be different pathogens each fish is raised around and neither have built resistance to the what the other may carry.
    One of my buddies say it is the same with Kio but if both fish are treated with formalin for 3 days before integrating the chance of issue is reduced ?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFp68wjRUU
    ^^ My fish room tour by Richsfishes ^^
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    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    If you can not mix German with Asian then we should not mix wilds and domestics for the same reasons. Fact is people have mixed German, Asian and wilds many times. Can you have CC issues, yes. Best to start with good healthy stock and observe proper QT with a hero fish as part of the mixing process. BTW, great marketing statement by Stendker!
    Pat
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  7. #7
    Registered Member Bud Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I raise german discus theses days. I will not mix them with Asian. Why poke the bear? risk of disease, medications. Discus like stable consistent conditions. Just my opinion.
    Bud

  8. #8
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I've kept Stendkers with Asian discus for decades without knowing about this statement. I'm not aware what are "Asian keeping conditions", compared to "European keeping conditions". Besides, Stendker got all his traits, like spotted, fineline snakeskin, pigeon bloods, from Asia inthe first place.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  9. #9
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I have only been raising discus for about 1 year now. So I am no expert as some here on this site.
    Both German and Asian fish.
    I am with Pat on this one. Good sales pitch.
    Also, good reason for a weak fish.
    I have made a lot of phone calls to a lot of fish breeders and distributors.
    "If you are going to have problems, it will show up in 4 days and it only happens 20% of the time".
    Those are the answers I get.
    Never a problem for me mixing them.

    HOWEVER, if I ever have a fish die, guess what, German.
    That is not including the piece of crap batch I originally got. They were all bad from the start.
    I am assuming all Asian? Not sure.

    I am not sure, but I think Miranda's fish from Chicago Discus are Asian?
    They are the BOMB!
    Never a problem with her fish.
    I am very fortunate to have a fantastic lfs right up the street.
    It's called Pet Supermarket. They sell fish from Sun Pets in Florida. Again, I am pretty sure Asian fish.
    NEVER a problem with their fish either. have not lost a one.
    Those girls at that store really pay good attention to their fish tanks.
    And when you bring the fish home, even small ones, they never hide.
    They are immediately out front with the others wanting to be fed.
    I have had their fish for months now and they are as easy to raise as angelfish.

    I have one German fish remaining.
    A Sapphire Blue. It's gonna die soon, it seems.
    To me, they all just don't have this strong personality or will to live and survive.
    They are frail from the start even though they look great when you buy them.
    A fish store across town sells nothing but Stendker. Gorgeous fish!
    No more of them for me.
    I got 3 of them this year at $90 each.
    2 withered away over the past 6 months. This is with meds and 90% WCs every other day.
    Yet all of my Asian fish are thriving. And being kept in the same tanks.

    Again, I am no expert. Only been keeping discus for just under a year now.
    But this is my take on it.
    I really don't believe the "don't mix" theory.
    I think it is don't mix weak fish with strong ones.

    BYW, I also raised Koi fish in California for many years.
    I mixed both Asian and American fish.
    NEVER one problem with that.
    Why would discus not be the same?
    Just not buying into it.
    Last edited by Vinni Smith; 09-17-2020 at 08:05 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I agree, I think this is more marketing hype than real. Although the issue of cross contamination and novel pathogens is real and potentially lethal, I would imagine that it also applies to Asian breeders who are geographically isolated from each other, the risk can be minimized with quarantine and prophylactic treatment but never fully eliminated.

    This is almost a speciation argument, meaning don't mix two species with differing requirements unless you are willing to damage/kill one or the other. But, who can define the difference between german tank conditions vs Asian tank conditions. It is implied that German sourced discus tolerate less frequent water changes, but who would want to stress their fish as a routine. Plus if not quantified, that is almost a worthless observation: How much more NO3, or TDS, or ORP change can german discus tolerate.

    As an aside, due to climate changes the range of Brown and Polar bears have been overlapping progressively to a much greater degree over the last several years and successful hybrids, including second generation hybrids (meaning this is a fertile cross as opposed to mules) have been found in nature. Over time if this continues this could lead to either a 3rd species or de-speciation where brown and polar bears ended up a single species.

  11. #11
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    For me I’m a mixer . First 6 came from local stores. No clue as too their heritage. Next we’re 6 Hans. These discus for me are very strong absolutely no problems. Just bought 8 more. Next I bought 2 from uncle sams. Again no problem just haven’t grown as big as Hans fish. All live together in a planted tank. To me clean water and qt are the most important things. .

  12. #12
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Tom, if you bought from Kenny this month then those would be Malaysian.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Yes and they are coming next week . Not sure where there going yet.

  14. #14
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    For me I’m a mixer . First 6 came from local stores. No clue as too their heritage. Next we’re 6 Hans. These discus for me are very strong absolutely no problems. Just bought 8 more. Next I bought 2 from uncle sams. Again no problem just haven’t grown as big as Hans fish. All live together in a planted tank. To me clean water and qt are the most important things. .

  15. #15
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Asian and European discus are the same species. They cross without any loss in fertility, vigor, etc. Ever since Georg Stendker got remarried, the marketing effort has become so much more aggressive - less scientifically based.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

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