German and Asian

[Vinni Smith]

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Vinnie, had the exact same experience. Painful and expensive. I'm glad others haven't experienced this with mixing.
My question is really this. What varieties of either german or asian discus are so special that you cannot get what you want out of the hobby by just staying with one or the other.

Good Point Andy. One or the other, once you learn that, are plenty of varieties.

BTW, I have another small shipment coming from Miranda at Chicago Discus. Scheduled to arrive by 10:30 AM tomorrow. Two 5" red Checkerboard PB. Nancy just loves those.
We like the Blue Diamond as well. Just waiting for her to get some 5" in stock.

[Vinni Smith]

That's really sad that you lost them all What had happened?

Not really sure. Just over months they withered way to nothing.

[pablos]

I moved my new 2.5" Stedker into the same tank where previously Asian pair were laying eggs (after 100% water change). Tank is BB, but same media (sponge filter and corner filter) and java fern on driftwood were left untouched.
If I understand the main concern about mixing is that cross contamination might occur. It looks like I did everything opposite to avoid possible cross contamination issue. Instead of mitigate a risk I basically mixed them already, correct?

Some sources are sayin "If the fish are going to 'cross contaminate' it will show itself within a 48 to 72 hour period. ". It's fourth days and fish are doing great - eating like crazy, not hiding at all etc.
Am I just stupidly lucky?

Villy, where have you started to see an issue with your German fish? BTW this red Checkerboard looks gorgeous.

[Iminit]

Pablos I did what you did. For me I added my first 6 into a 45 that still had the Cory’s from my store bought. No problems. When a month latter I added them to the main tank I picked a hero fish and added first. Just to be sure and I had no problems . So far my Hans have been great! Pic of my Hans checkerboard.E0DA67B7-F5B1-4A4D-80D8-83F9AC4D8C20.jpg

[pablos]

Maybe it's marketing than only ...
Your discus looks great, but Anubias might require some additional care.

[Iminit]

Lol yeah plants are hurting a bit. Anubias always seems to get bba on it. It’s still putting out leaves so it’s ok .

[Vinni Smith]

I just got my 2 fish from Miranda & Josie at Chicago Discus.
Absolutely fabulous!
They look even better in person than in the pics.
They acclimated well and are acting very good in their new digs.

Those girls run a tight ship and I hope they are in business for a long, long time.
It is nothing but a pleasure dealing with them.

[farebox]

After reading this thread, I gave some thought of adding my five Red Alenquer discus from Chicago Discus to my 125-gallon tank with 10 Hans discus. Mind you I had the Red Alenquers in QT for 30 days and they displayed no problems. Made the move and boom, four days later the Hans discus got sick! Moved the Red alenquers out and lost two Hans fish. Now my 125-tank is in a turmoil. Dosed the whole with Fritz ParaCleanse. The bottom line is I was a complete fool for mixing these fish together. Never again will I do this. Good luck to all you folks who do mix discus from different suppliers who ever they may be.

[Vinni Smith]

After reading this thread, I gave some thought of adding my five Red Alenquer discus from Chicago Discus to my 125-gallon tank with 10 Hans discus. Mind you I had the Red Alenquers in QT for 30 days and they displayed no problems. Made the move and boom, four days later the Hans discus got sick! Moved the Red alenquers out and lost two Hans fish. Now my 125-tank is in a turmoil. Dosed the whole with Fritz ParaCleanse. The bottom line is I was a complete fool for mixing these fish together. Never again will I do this. Good luck to all you folks who do mix discus from different suppliers who ever they may be.

So sorry to hear this Bro.

Nancy and I have been talking this subject over at length.
It seems to always be the German fish that fall ill.
I really think it is because they are raised inside, in perfect, sterile conditions.
Then they have to come out into real life.
That does not always end well.
We are doing the same as humans. We don't let our kids eat mud like we did. Etc.
I often wonder about these folks driving down the road with masks and gloves on.
If they do that for 2 years, I am afraid they will be in for a rude awakening when they finally stop.
That is how our immune system works. It has to be exercised.


If I ever do German fish again, they will be alone. Period.

Just my thoughts.

[peewee1]

Garlic contains compounds that help the immune system fight germs . Whole garlic contains a compound called alliin. When garlic is crushed or chewed, this compound turns into allicin the main active ingredient in garlic. I consume about 1/2 minced garlic per day. Some add garlic to their fish food so I wonder if the garlic has the same affect for fish immune as it does for humans. The German discus must have a weaker immune than do Asian. Recall when the Brits first came to America for Thanksgiving dinner that afterwards all of the indigenous people got sick and died from all of the foreign sicknesses they did not have. I suspect that some of those that came to new American were Germans. None were Asians. Hmmmmm.

[pablos]

Garlic is good not only for humans it’s exactly the same effect for fish, see https://www.researchgate.net/publica...chromis_aureus

I’m adding garlic to my beef (lamb in my case) heart mix, so maybe it’s the reason that I see no issue with my German fish (apart of the fact that they are growing too fast), even if they are swinging in ex-Asian discus tank.

“In conclusion, the present study documented that 0.5 g/kg supplementation of garlic had significantly improved leucocyte count, respiratory burst, phagocytic activity, phagocytic index and lysozyme activity, indicating the immunostimulant properties of garlic in juvenile hybrid tilapia. Juvenile hybrid tilapia fed of garlic 1 g/kg showed no improvement in lysozyme activity, phagocytic activity and phagocytic index which indicate that the immunostimulant properties of garlic seem to disappear at high concentration.”

[famtsberg]

Nancy and I have been talking this subject over at length.
It seems to always be the German fish that fall ill.
I really think it is because they are raised inside, in perfect, sterile conditions.
Then they have to come out into real life.
That does not always end well.
We are doing the same as humans. We don't let our kids eat mud like we did. Etc.
I often wonder about these folks driving down the road with masks and gloves on.
If they do that for 2 years, I am afraid they will be in for a rude awakening when they finally stop.
That is how our immune system works. It has to be exercised.


If I ever do German fish again, they will be alone. Period.

Just my thoughts.

I agree bro, as a nurse that has studied the immune system its like everything else. It needs to be used. Look at the Indians or Pacific islanders. They were decimated by diseases Europeans were immune to for years. The German fish are raised in a virtually sterile environment. The Asian fish are basically the Europeans showing up to the tropical island. They are healthy but as soon as the islanders say hi, POW right in the kisser. Makes sense to me.

[Iminit]

Wait a minute peewee are you blaming this on the pilgrims?? And come on everybody know the cook on the mayflower was Asian!
Now back to the topic . I too feed my discus a garlic food. Nutri diet discus flakes use garlic as an ingredient. Wonder if that the reason for my success?

[bluelagoon]

The purpose for garlic in fish food is to keep intestinal parasites at bay.

[Willie]

We just went through a whole discussion about how Asian discus had weakened immune systems because they were raised in yellow powder. Now we've made a complete U-turn and concluded that European discus are weak because they're raised in sterile conditions. Then we cite a study which is cleverly worded to imply more than the data warrants.

“In conclusion, the present study documented that 0.5 g/kg supplementation of garlic had significantly improved leucocyte count, respiratory burst, phagocytic activity, phagocytic index and lysozyme activity, indicating the immunostimulant properties of garlic in juvenile hybrid tilapia. Juvenile hybrid tilapia fed of garlic 1 g/kg showed no improvement in lysozyme activity, phagocytic activity and phagocytic index which indicate that the immunostimulant properties of garlic seem to disappear at high concentration.”

As a scientist with many publications, my conclusion is that these researchers could not find any improvement in disease resistance. But practically speaking, you can't publish a paper on negative results, so they had to identify some indications which may or may not have anything to do with anything. Many ingredients stimulate the immune system that have absolutely no effect on resistance to disease. The entire supplement industry is built on this type of hype.

I'm not writing to slam anyone, but to caution against jumping to conclusions.