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Thread: German and Asian

  1. #31
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Nice looking discus Pablos!! What types are they.
    Got to say I like the topic. Only here a short time and it seems there’s only 2 big breeders discussed here. Hans and Kenny. I know there’s others but those 2 are the biggest. Most of mine are Hans but I just bought 4 of Kenny’s. Will be coming next week. So topic is relevant to me. Really not sure what I’m doing with them. Thinking now I should have bought 6. Not sure if I’ll mix. Another question what happened to the American breeders?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I have 5 Asian adult discus, out
    of them two pairs have been created and they are laying eggs as we speak.

    Then local distributor informed about a new Stendkers ... so I could not wait and bought those 6 ones (2 Tefe, 2 turquoise, one alenquer and German wonder). They are awesome

    I was thinking to quarantine them for a few weeks and grow up, till my new 150gallon tank is ready so could potentially put all 6 German and 5 Asian discus in that tank.

  3. #33
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I guess most folks have read this but I'll post it anyways.https://diskuszucht-stendker.de/en_e...elles/Aktuell/.. Also Asian discus farms use a lot of "yellow powder" as they put it. Most are raised in tanks of Furan 2 due to crowded living conditions. Another good read.https://phys.org/news/2013-01-orname...ntibiotic.html. There are you tube videos showing farmed discus in Asia using that antibiotic daily basis. They grow up under different living conditions. German indoor with filtration and most Asia out side in large concrete tanks.

  4. #34
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelagoon View Post
    Very odd statement in the Stendker material, "It is partly accepted that your existing fish stock will be infected with our STENDKER discus fish and that our animals will die!" Nothing in their document refers to infections or antibiotics, just this unsupported statement. I like Stendker discus for the size and fertility, but this kind of smear is frankly disappointing. There are other discus breeders in Europe and no one else is claiming this.

    I can't speak for all ornamental fish, for which there are plenty of abuse, I'm sure. But all discus farms I've visited in Asia (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore) have discus growing in tanks, not in ponds. With 300% water changes daily, constant use of medication is simply not practical. I keep Stendker discus, Asian spawned discus and Asian strains spawned in North America. Most are healthy and an occasional fish will get sick. In general, there's no difference in health between these fish.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  5. #35
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I have one Stendker fish remaining.
    It is a Blue Diamond that has now turned black but is still eating.
    All else in the tank is doing great.
    That will be the last Stendker that I plan to buy.
    Only exception is if some day I decide to do a tank just for them.
    Which, quite frankly is not a sweet idea to me at this time.

  6. #36
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Very odd statement in the Stendker material, "It is partly accepted that your existing fish stock will be infected with our STENDKER discus fish and that our animals will die!" Nothing in their document refers to infections or antibiotics, just this unsupported statement. I like Stendker discus for the size and fertility, but this kind of smear is frankly disappointing. There are other discus breeders in Europe and no one else is claiming this.

    I can't speak for all ornamental fish, for which there are plenty of abuse, I'm sure. But all discus farms I've visited in Asia (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore) have discus growing in tanks, not in ponds. With 300% water changes daily, constant use of medication is simply not practical. I keep Stendker discus, Asian spawned discus and Asian strains spawned in North America. Most are healthy and an occasional fish will get sick. In general, there's no difference in health between these fish.
    Here is a video of the "yellow powder". I know myself that not all Asian discus are grown out in ponds, but some are and these discus could be the ones that are causing the issues when mixed with those that had no antibiotics. I would think there immune systems would be compromised from all the antibiotics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn7c...=AquariumCo-Op

  7. #37
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Discus production in Asia has spread beyond the original sources due to the pressure to lower prices. I've seen discus come from Vietnam and Thailand. Some of these have been imported into Singapore then resold as Singapore discus (spent an afternoon in Singapore with an exporter who was very candid about his business model). So there's bound to be abuse in the system. That's not to say that similar abuses do not occur in discus from other parts of the world. To create a division between Asian and European discus is simplistic and incorrect.

    The answer is always to buy from reliable, trustworthy suppliers. Once again, this goes back to buying from Simply Discus sponsors who would have ssooooooo much to lose if their fish craps out.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  8. #38
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Very true. The source is the most important part. No matter what part of the world they come from. I see a lot of nice home bred discus on here too. I thought I'd through that in so folks that are having a lot bacterial issues with discus usually bought from the shops that don't specialize in discus come from those farms that use antibiotics in vast quantities.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelagoon View Post
    Here is a video of the "yellow powder". I know myself that not all Asian discus are grown out in ponds, but some are and these discus could be the ones that are causing the issues when mixed with those that had no antibiotics. I would think there immune systems would be compromised from all the antibiotics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn7c...=AquariumCo-Op
    On one of my trips I asked about the Yellow Powder, they said it's a form of furanase.
    As for the practice of Discus in ponds out doors this still existing but some have move
    indoors operations for a cleaner operation without using any pesticides.

    Cliff

  10. #40
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    So, my last Stendker finally passed today.
    Just withered away for months.
    Everyone else in the tank is flourishing.
    All the others are asian fish.
    Well, I think so. What are the fish from Mac's? Are they asian?
    I have two of them in that tank as well.

    So, I am thinking if the asians are raised outside with the bird poop, fogs doing nasty things in the water, bugs of all sorts and parasites of most all kinds.
    Could this be why the asian fish are doing great for me and the german fish being raised inside in perfect conditions fall victim to any ailment that comes along?
    If that is the case, I will stay with my asian fish. Even as beautiful as the Stendker fish can be.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    I believe that to a certain extent that Mac is a breeder. He may resell as well.

  12. #42
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Vinnie I think your problem comes from your pet shop. Were the steadier discus the only discus in the tank? I have Hans discus and they have been flawless. I’ve mixed them with store bought and Asian with no problem as of yet. That tank my 125 is over a year old now and so far all is well.

  13. #43
    Registered Member Vinni Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    Vinnie I think your problem comes from your pet shop. Were the steadier discus the only discus in the tank? I have Hans discus and they have been flawless. I’ve mixed them with store bought and Asian with no problem as of yet. That tank my 125 is over a year old now and so far all is well.
    Well, maybe so. But they look and act ok for a while. Then BOOM. It all starts.
    They are in a huge tank by themselves in the back of the store.
    At one point I did see a couple of Arowanas in with them.
    They look like they are very well kept.
    And it is really only those fish that die on us.
    Other than the first 5 I got from ******.com
    That was my first batch and they were junkers.
    Last edited by Vinni Smith; 09-20-2020 at 10:00 PM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinni Smith View Post
    So, my last Stendker finally passed today.
    Just withered away for months.
    That's really sad that you lost them all What had happened?

  15. #45
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    Default Re: German and Asian

    Vinnie, had the exact same experience. Painful and expensive. I'm glad others haven't experienced this with mixing.
    My question is really this. What varieties of either german or asian discus are so special that you cannot get what you want out of the hobby by just staying with one or the other.

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