Urgent. Breeding pair in agony

[slaven]

Do you have chlorine in your tap water?

I use aged waste water and chlorine removal

[jeep]

I'm sorry for your experience. I'm not sure what would have progressed this quickly. I'm curious as to why you're using RO water. Was it for breeding purposes or do you use it regularly? Ditto on the parameters. Either your test kit is bad or you're not testing correctly. All tanks should at least have nitrates and since they are showing 0 then I wonder about the ammonia? Even if this were an internal water related issue, the water changes you did should have fixed the problem or at least slowed it down. If it were a tap water issue then you should have seen an improvement when you switched to bottled water.

If this is a disease then I can't help but think they arrived with it. Sorry I can't help more but this was pretty a fast decline and I'm not sure what could have been done at this point...

[CliffsDiscus]

I agree with Brian about using RO. Your German source has the Asian Discus Slime Disease. Some sellers juice up their Discus before shipping
after a week or two the Discus becomes weak, plus your water is different. Do a search on Discus Plague.

Cliff

[pablos]

It might be a cross contamination when mixing fish from different sources. You said “ Previously I prepared the breeding tank as I always prepare for other breeding pairs”, so I assume you have already a different discus and if you haven’t disinfected a tank, they might got bacterias from one of your another discus.

What you expressed it’s very similar to what few folks experienced already (losing colours, and they gone in few days). See a different topic “German and Asian”

[slaven]

It might be a cross contamination when mixing fish from different sources. You said “ Previously I prepared the breeding tank as I always prepare for other breeding pairs”, so I assume you have already a different discus and if you haven’t disinfected a tank, they might got bacterias from one of your another discus.

What you expressed it’s very similar to what few folks experienced already (losing colours, and they gone in few days). See a different topic “German and Asian”

Searching on the web it can be discus plague.
Somebody knows how people have treat it?
This German source imports from Asia for sure, keeping them for longer time and sellling matted and confirmed pairs.
Do you know which treatment I can use to prevent these kind of issues?
Regarding the water parameters the nitrate was less than 10 (error in my data). First what I thought it can be water, but ar the same day I did WC in all breeding tanks (40-50%) and other fishes were OK-
I am using Ro water mixed with aged waste because in Valencia, Spain the water is very, very hard (800 ppm). For breeding I am using 90/10 Ro/waste and 70/30 for nomal tanks. I am still optimizing the breeding condition but the eggs hatching very well.

[slaven]

Also just to inform you when I told you that the other fish died, it was late the fish was laying on side without any movement and any sign of life. It was very late at night and I was thinking he was dead, and very desparate I have told you that I have lost him. This morning I have found him showing still signs of life. This was after unsuccessful treatment with Esha 2000 I moved the pair in other tank and start with internal bacteria treatment (interpet number nine). The female died but as you see today the male was a little bit better swimming.
I will inform you about the improvement or with bad news.

[slaven]

Hi everyone,
just have read the GErman QAsian discussion and realized that many users had the same problem. One day clamped fins, get darken and in 2 days are gone. But I do not know how to prevent or to cure theis diseases in future to not to lose fishes and money.

[jeep]

I agree with Brian about using RO. Your German source has the Asian Discus Slime Disease. Some sellers juice up their Discus before shipping
after a week or two the Discus becomes weak, plus your water is different. Do a search on Discus Plague.

Cliff

I was thinking of this as well but I was reluctant because of a lack of more detail.

These fish crashed very quickly even for a CC issue unless the came in already compromised from the supplier. Most cases of cross contamination take roughly 2 weeks to become apparent and these were much quicker. I've heard of some breeders and sellers keeping their fish in an antibiotic solution, especially those who use a central filtration system. Once the fish is removed from its antibiotic environment any bacteria or protozoa present can take over very quickly because they've become resistant to the antibiotics.

There's no proof this is what happened but it's worth considering. The only other thing I can think of that would attack these fish so quickly would be something toxic in the water supply...

[jeep]

Hi everyone,
just have read the GErman QAsian discussion and realized that many users had the same problem. One day clamped fins, get darken and in 2 days are gone. But I do not know how to prevent or to cure theis diseases in future to not to lose fishes and money.

Unfortunately it would be difficult in your situation because of your limited access to medications. A much higher concentration of salt has worked in many cases of cross contamination but it's not a guarantee.

[sumer]

I watched a video just last night by Dr. Bassleer on this very topic.
His thoughts are that this is a syndrome. It's not 1 specific thing that causes this. This happens when someone buys new fish. There's something when mixing the Asian discus vs German discus- Even by sharing the same fishroom.
He said that he has looked at many such fish and has done dissections only to find out that the immune system was gone and the normal things which the discus would have survived with, becomes so overpowering that kill the fish. He says Angels can get this syndrome as well.

I wish a PhD candidate would make this the tpic of his/her research.
Sorry for your loss. I don;t think there was anything you did wrong. It is one of the unexplainable things that you couldn't have done anything about.

[slaven]

I watched a video just last night by Dr. Bassleer on this very topic.
His thoughts are that this is a syndrome. It's not 1 specific thing that causes this. This happens when someone buys new fish. There's something when mixing the Asian discus vs German discus- Even by sharing the same fishroom.
He said that he has looked at many such fish and has done dissections only to find out that the immune system was gone and the normal things which the discus would have survived with, becomes so overpowering that kill the fish. He says Angels can get this syndrome as well.

I wish a PhD candidate would make this the tpic of his/her research.
Sorry for your loss. I don;t think there was anything you did wrong. It is one of the unexplainable things that you couldn't have done anything about.

I think that this is an serious issue not very well investigated. I think that the issue is not related to particular breeder but to particular oportunistic bacteria that in one breeder or supplier instalation is OK for the fishes and they live very happy with them. When the fishes are translated to other environment with other fishes they get sick of other bacteria which a new environment and fishes are very happy with.
It is the same with microbiota in our intestine. When people travel to India eating their food majority of them will be sick, not because their food is contaminated, it is because their intestine got used to other bacteria in their food, and our digestive system not.
I have contacted to the supplier of my leopard pair and he advised me that I should treat the fishes with high concentration of salt.
500gr/L

[slaven]

I think that this is an serious issue not very well investigated. I think that the issue is not related to particular breeder but to particular oportunistic bacteria that in one breeder or supplier instalation is OK for the fishes and they live very happy with them. When the fishes are translated to other environment with other fishes they get sick of other bacteria which a new environment and fishes are very happy with.
It is the same with microbiota in our intestine. When people travel to India eating their food majority of them will be sick, not because their food is contaminated, it is because their intestine got used to other bacteria in their food, and our digestive system not.
I have contacted to the supplier of my leopard pair and he advised me that I should treat the fishes with high concentration of salt.
500gr/L

I mean 500 gr/100L

[danotaylor]

When I introduced a hero Asian discus to a group of healthy discus spawned by our site owner Al, I had 1 dead and many struggling discus within 48hours. In retrospect I noticed a few struggling within 24 hours of introducing the hero fish. The Asian discus was clearly an immune carrier of something the US domestics were not immune too, though all my asian discus were happy and healthy in their own tank for over 9 months. Brian (Jeep) advised me on a strong salt treatment, 1tbsp per gallon, which freaked me out as it equated to just over 2 lbs of salt. This treatment cured the problem completely. I then treated the Asian discus tank with the same strength salt treatment and was then able to successfully introduced the US bred domestic strain to the Asian discus tank without any further problems.
I guess what I was trying to say is that in my experience the cross contamination was extremely quick and deadly. Good old salt worked a treat!

[jeep]

Danny, for some reason I was thinking your problem took a bit longer. Around 2 weeks. I may have gotten you mixed up with someone else...

[slaven]

When I introduced a hero Asian discus to a group of healthy discus spawned by our site owner Al, I had 1 dead and many struggling discus within 48hours. In retrospect I noticed a few struggling within 24 hours of introducing the hero fish. The Asian discus was clearly an immune carrier of something the US domestics were not immune too, though all my asian discus were happy and healthy in their own tank for over 9 months. Brian (Jeep) advised me on a strong salt treatment, 1tbsp per gallon, which freaked me out as it equated to just over 2 lbs of salt. This treatment cured the problem completely. I then treated the Asian discus tank with the same strength salt treatment and was then able to successfully introduced the US bred domestic strain to the Asian discus tank without any further problems.
I guess what I was trying to say is that in my experience the cross contamination was extremely quick and deadly. Good old salt worked a treat!

I was thinking that I will present you authentic miracle because I apply this salt advice in combination with internal bacteria interpet nine what is mainly formaldehyde to my male male that he was clinically dead from this couple in agony. 2 days he was recovering a little but finally I have found him dead this morning. MAybe combination of these 2 medications was wrong option or just he was very weak to survive.
Next time quarantine with salt, By the way what is duration of this salt treatment?
Does anybody know what is the best way to sterilize the aquarium and equipment in this infected acuarium?
Sincerely
Slaven