Immunities

[Vinni Smith]

I would like to get some opinions from you veteran Discus folks that are in the know.
And I am sure there are quite a few lurking around here.


Even though we are new to Discus, we have kept aquarium and pond fish together for over 40 years now.
I have had aquariums since I was 10.
I for sure don't know everything, but I have been around the block a few times.
Enough to have some opinions about some issues.


I've observed and heard others talk about having a closed system, either pond or aquarium in which no new fish were added in years.
Everything going well and happy.
Then, a fish or some fish are added, even after QT and then soon after the locals get sick and many die.

It makes me wonder.
Every year we get a new cold or flu strain and it is up to our immune system to fight it off.
We either get sick, or don't feel any effect, but still have built natural protection against the new bug.
So, my question....
Can this happen with our Discus if we do not add any new tenants to our closed systems?
I have heard it happening with pond fish and salt water tanks as well.

What are your thoughts?

[peewee1]

When the white man migrated to the Americas all of the indigenous got sick and died. I will ask you in a closed system, such as the Americas were prior to the white devils, can the various foods that we feed these fish or the water we change transmit new sickness?

[Vinni Smith]

When the white man migrated to the Americas all of the indigenous got sick and died. I will ask you in a closed system, such as the Americas were prior to the white devils, can the various foods that we feed these fish or the water we change transmit new sickness?

That is a very good question peewee.

[captainandy]

It’s more complicated than you might think. An asymptomatic fish, mammal, bird, etc can harbor bad germs for years. Then, bingo, the germ can suddenly rear i of ts head and grow rampant.

Another example is cancer. Our bodies make cancer cells all the time and our immune system kills them. Sometimes the immune system fails and the cancer cells get out of hand.

I am sure there are specific reasons for these things, but so far we can only guess.

[14Discus]

Interesting topic. What was said prior has merit regarding immune systems. One additional factor to consider is the potency of the particular pathogen. Some pathogens are just so potent that a given organism will succumb no matter the state of its immune system. Such microbio events are likely to cause problems for life (plants/animals) as we know it.....it’s inevitable.

[captainandy]

Can’t believe anyone would advertise an unrelated item like a pillow cover on this forum.

[Second Hand Pat]

Can’t believe anyone would advertise an unrelated item like a pillow cover on this forum.

Must have been a spammer who is now gone lol.
Pat

[Vinni Smith]

Can’t believe anyone would advertise an unrelated item like a pillow cover on this forum.

Hey! Chill! I love pillows!

LOL

[Willie]

I very seldom buy new discus. When I do, I buy them in batches and they go into their own grow out tank. Typically, one of my discus does not see new discus for more than a year after coming into my fishroom. I don't feed live food. It's either dry or frozen beefheart. I use frozen red worms minimally (there are reports of disease transmission when people feed frozen red worms continuously). All of this is about minimizing the chance for introducing pathogens into my system.

But even though its rare, I will get sick discus. Now these guys are getting 100% water changes daily and fed very high quality food, so it's not a matter of water quality. For that reason, I keep a minimum of 1 - 2 quarantine tanks ready. When I see or suspect disease, the fish goes into quarantine immediately.

All this tells me discus will get sick in a closed system.

[coralbandit]

There are theories that once a marine fish recovers from marine ich [not at all like FW ich it is very serious ] that they are immune .
That makes them a possible asymptomatic carrier I believe and although the individual fish may never get ich again all [or most] that come in contact with it are doomed to contract ich [ New comer run over by welcome wagon type deal ] . That is the opposite of what we are talking about but I think relevant . Where the issue comes from is not important when a fish has no good immune defense ..
I don't mix my fish either ,but I rarely cure or attempt to save a sick fish .They just go in the freezer [it is the most effective 'cure' and safest IMO for a 50+ tank fish room ] . Issues like dropsy and columnaris are two specific bacteria that not only usually kill their host but if for some odd reason someone would ' cure ' the fish , keep it and then introduce other fish to it the other fish will usually cause the new to drop like flies .
Makes one wonder if the asymptomatic fish [or person] actually carries a stronger / more potent version of the infection ?
All my years of fish keeping and trying to 'cure' fish says if potassium permanganate does not deal with it in 1 week freeze the fish .

I have wondered if early introduction of a different 'gened' healthy fish could help a healthy fry to ' harden' from being weak to 'foreign' bacteria . Something I try to do with my fry ..What it is worth I have no clue ? But I think there is value to adding a 'new' healthy fish to other healthy fish . I know all my fish are healthy but I still keep them separate for the most part . Adding a fish from another spawn I think has value like socializing amongst other healthy people ?? I never even took biology in high school so I only can speak from what I have seen and thought to try .
But kept in a 'sterile' environment so to speak is not the best scenario for mixing fish IMO?
Not sure if any of this helps or makes sense ?