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Thread: very sick discus

  1. #16
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    I vacated my 90g and blasted it with hydrogen peroxide and pond strength algicide to rid it of all problem hair algae. It was vacant for many weeks with filters running. I recharged the 2 canister filters on a monthly basis. vacuumed the gravel, changed water. It was pristine! I was going to make it a discus tank. I love fishing & keep a stock tank in my garage with live minnows. Cheap starter fish. I started with 7 shiner minnows which are still alive & well in this tank, added 8 cory cats. All was well. Introduced a timid Blue Eruption Discus 5.5" that was a finicky eater and a White Diamond 4.0" juvi to the tank late February to establish the tank. All was doing great. 7 new discus arrived March 24th, all in great shape. Acclimated great, kept lights out, fed lightly. They were doing great until I got home from work Friday 26th. One fish was obviously weak, no other signs. It didn't make it through the night. water tasting showed ammonia spike. Water change & media reactor with zeolite corrected issue quickly. All started down hill from there. I didn't quarantine this group as they had a tank dedicated specifically for the new arrivals

  2. #17
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Hi Ksermie,

    It seems like you are doing everything right. Your problems are likely traced to that ammonia spike. There are a lot of threads about mysterious discus illness here. And, medication often doesn't help. Once they have trouble, there could be a cascade of problems.

    I am beginning to think that discus (especially wilds) can have a residual effect from stress. Mad dashes around the tank appears to be the big warning sign even in otherwise healthy fish. Really, the best thing that we can do is probably to FIRST buy only healthy specimens and SECOND always retain quality water. I am sorry that in your case the horse is already out of the barn, so to speak.

    Personally, out of twenty discus that I have, one is a dasher. I thought he was done for yesterday but this morning he is still alive. I believe this fish is the same one that nearly died after being delayed by our last ice storm. None of my other discus are dashing. I think it's troubles are due to almost dying in shipping.

    So, it is probably by far in our best interest to avoid problems rather than address them. Keep up the quality water. However, if I were you, I would start aging my water for a day or two. Your pH may be swinging too much at a water change. Many here (including myself) have made problems worse with a lot of big changes consecutively.

    I wish there were more concrete answers. The best discus keepers here never allow their fish to be stressed to begin with. They never end up chasing their tail.


    I really hope everything works out for you. I have been there. Live and Learn,
    Andy
    Last edited by andy77; 04-11-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    It's hard to say exactly why they're bloating up. Certainly bacterial or parasitical and very likely something from the minnows. Note, live fish should never be used to cycle a tank for discus.

    As far as saving the ones you have now, I would increase your water changes to 50% daily with aged and temp matched water. I would add about 4TBS salt per 10g and replace the salt removed during water changes. 10 day treatment. There's also another product that's excellent for purging internal poisoning or bacteria called Microbe-Lift Artemiss.

    They've had some pretty powerful meds recently and they should have a break for at least 2 weeks before adding any more. After 2 weeks of good clean water and rest, you can reevaluate and see if they should be wormed.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    I know I may get several answers, but that, to me, would be a good thing. Where do you recommend I purchase medications? I also want to thank you all for your help and understanding. Things were getting a bit frustrating for me yesterday.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Andy has some very good points. Ammonia spikes can cause a ton of issues even after it's been corrected. My main red flag is seeing minnows and bloat. And even with that, over medicating can complicate things.

    Where are you located?

  6. #21
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    We live in southern Indiana

  7. #22
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Jehmco and Angels Plus are where I get my meds.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    I'm down to two discus in this 90 gal tank. they don't have the bloat but have the white poop. I'm thinking of moving them to a 29 gal quarantine tank and dose them with Metronidazole. This would give them a break from the heavy meds and maybe save a couple. Any thoughts? Oh, and the minnows are going.

  9. #24
    Administrator jeep's Avatar
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Placing them in a hospital tank is an excellent idea. Can you give photo's of the two that are still alive?

  10. #25
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    pics. disregard the blue photo. I really don't know what I'm doing. These are pics of the two I have left
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ksermie; 04-12-2021 at 09:54 PM.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    I'm so sorry to hear. Your discus are gorgeous. It seems to me from having an ammonia spike this is the same thing that happened to me - - tank was not cycled to the discus bioload.

    Hard lesson to learn trust me. Best thing you can do is what Brian said and keep monitoring your water. Look for ammonia and nitrites especially. Maybe get a cycled sponge from LFS and see if that helps.
    Amateur discuskeeper, Professional doofus

  12. #27
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Sorry, I just saw your email with the photo's and found you had already post them. The two don't look too bad at all. Are they acting ok? I don't see any bloating or swelling in them. With the slightly ragged fins, I agree you may have has an ammonia spike at one point along with possible CC from the minnows.

    I still think moving them to a hospital tank, do regular water changes and monitoring them for a couple of weeks is the best way to go. I would definitely do this before introducing any additional discus. I would completely tear down the main tank and sterilize with a bleach 10% solution and start fresh. I would also remove the gravel.

  13. #28
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    Wink Re: very sick discus

    Hi Ksermie,

    Your remaining fish look good. Brian is giving you good advice and I would do as he suggests.

    Personally, I lost my "mad dasher" yesterday. That is two months after his ice storm delay.

    As I wrote, the very best discus keepers never let their fish get stressed because they know what can happen. I think 95% or more of the forum members have had problems to some extent or other. You will do well. You have the passion and the skill set. Discus can be unforgiving, especially when new.


    The Best is Yet to Come,
    Andy

    Hee hee, UPS has six Blue Face Heckels 15 minutes from my home. Wooo Hoooo!
    Last edited by andy77; 04-13-2021 at 09:27 AM.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    To all of you who gave input and advise, Thank You. Also thanks for the words of encouragement. This experience has stung pretty bad. Sounds like you all know what I'm talking about. I still have my 60 gal with 6 gorgeous adults and a stunted 3.5" discus that is buddies with all the big ones to feed my need for these exceptional creatures. I have moved the remaining two to the hospital tank. They still look ok, but, here I'm gonna ask for more help. I haven't seen either one eat. I think it was 3 days ago the red diamond had a mucus poop, nothing from either lately. Since the bacteria invasion I have the temp at 82 degrees. I gave them a dose of Metronidazole yesterday evening. They do appear to be moving more in the whole water column this afternoon. Doing a water change now. Should I add aquarium salt? Oh, just got a little mucus poop from the Leopard, It's 5:20 PM. Your thoughts??



    Andy, sorry about dasher. I thought I was the only one who gets giddy when my new fish are on their way.
    Last edited by Ksermie; 04-13-2021 at 05:31 PM.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: very sick discus

    Mucous-like feces could be a result of Hex or the result of some other internal parasite. The most common is Hex, and since that's what you've started treatment with, this is how I've gone about doing it.

    Slowly raise the temperatures to 92F if your heater goes that high - some don't so if they cannot get that high I'd say crank it as high as it will go. My 12-day Metro regimen starts with a large water change (75%+). Then they get pure Metronidazole dosed at 500mg/10 gallons, along with a 'light' salt treatment of 2 TBSP per 10 gallons. 12 hours later they get another identical dose of metro. Before the 3rd dose, I wipe down all glass surfaces and again do another large water change, then another dose of metro. The salt gets replaced on the amount of water that was changed. I.E. if you have a 29 gallon tank, a 75% water change would be about 22 gallons so you'd only add an additional 4-ish TBSP of salt. This process repeats for 12 days. On the 12th day (i.e. no more treatments remain), I do a near 100% water change and then continue observing the fish for another 2 weeks to see how they're doing. During this period, they are getting daily large water changes to keep quality high. An abridged example is below.

    Raise temps to 92F
    Day 1 PM: Large WC, Metro @ 500mg/10G, salt @ 2 TBSP/10G
    Day 2 AM: Metro @ 500mg/10G
    Day 2 PM: Wipe surfaces, Large WC, Metro @ 500mg/10G, salt @ 2 TBSP/10G of replaced water
    Days 3 - 12 repeats Day 2 AM/PM routine above
    Day 12 PM: ~100% WC and then observation

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