Need help - discus has an area of rotting? see pic

[smsimcik]

Oxytetracycline is a good option. Keep in mind that it is light sensitive so keep the lights off. Treatment needs to be done in QT.

Tammy

Besides being light sensitive, it will also bind to calcium, magnesium and iron ions in solution. Therefore, it is not as effective in hard water. It is a good choice in softer water.

[jeep]

I recommend starting aquarium salt at 3tbs per 10G and nitrofurazone.

Tammy

Ditto!! I always resist using antibiotics when possible but you don't want this to spread...

[famtsberg]

https://angelsplus.com/collections/fish-medications

good selection of medications. Aquabid has a good selection also. If you should need them.

Salt and wc generally fixes most of what ales them. The problem is usually water chemistry. It hasn't jumped to other fish which tells me its stable. Good food with added protein, salt, and wc.

[captainandy]

The most important aspect when making a diagnosis. Followed by how is the fish doing.
If it suddenly appeared, its likely due to some sort of trauma and will heal on its own, without adding anything.
If it came on gradually, and the fish is doing well (eating and swimming around) it is not bacterial. Any lesions this size, if caused by a bacterial infection, would be doing very poorly - interims of balance, eating or breathing.
IMO the salt addition is treating you and not the fish

[Tkuilderd]

The most important aspect when making a diagnosis. Followed by how is the fish doing.
If it suddenly appeared, its likely due to some sort of trauma and will heal on its own, without adding anything.
If it came on gradually, and the fish is doing well (eating and swimming around) it is not bacterial. Any lesions this size, if caused by a bacterial infection, would be doing very poorly - interims of balance, eating or breathing.
IMO the salt addition is treating you and not the fish

It is a good thing you arent doing the diagnosing. I have seen fish with Aeromonas, who eventually died from the infection, swim around eating and acting normal. And for someone who doesnt know the benefits of aquarium salt, you might want to actually do a bit of research before spouting nonsense.

Tammy
PS this is a slide from a lecture with Dr Ruth Floyd from UFL veterinary lab.

Screenshot_20210501-173303_Gallery.jpg

[captainandy]

It is a good thing you arent doing the diagnosing. I have seen fish with Aeromonas, who eventually died from the infection, swim around eating and acting normal. And for someone who doesnt know the benefits of aquarium salt, you might want to actually do a bit of research before spouting nonsense.

Tammy
PS this is a slide from a lecture with Dr Ruth Floyd from UFL veterinary lab.

Screenshot_20210501-173303_Gallery.jpg

What an angry young lady you are. Discus evolved in a setting of minimal minerals in their environment. Many other species, salt addition may be of benefit. There is not one iota of scientific evidence that demonstrates that salt addition is some sort of tonic for discus. It is widely used on this forum because it is used when a diagnosis is not made and no other options are clear. When I first joined tis forum, HTH was thought to be a parasitic worm and it was treated as such. Compared to other forums that I participate in, reef and catfish, for some reason there is not a good handle yet on discus disease.

Bye


If you truly had a scientific background, the last thing you would do is insult a fellow hobbyist.

[captainandy]

Besides being light sensitive, it will also bind to calcium, magnesium and iron ions in solution. Therefore, it is not as effective in hard water. It is a good choice in softer water.

Intense sunlight (UV A and B) will darken Oxytetracycline
Artificial aquarium light will not
Osol, A. and J.E. Hoover, et al. (eds.). Remington's Pharmaceutical Sciences. 15th ed. Easton, Pennsylvania: Mack Publishing Co., 1975., p. 1142

The binding of Oxytetracycline to calcium is inconsequential in aquarium water as it is in mammalian serum

[Tkuilderd]

Intense sunlight (UV A and B) will darken Oxytetracycline
Artificial aquarium light will not
Osol, A. and J.E. Hoover, et al. (eds.). Remington's Pharmaceutical Sciences. 15th ed. Easton, Pennsylvania: Mack Publishing Co., 1975., p. 1142

The binding of Oxytetracycline to calcium is inconsequential in aquarium water as it is in mammalian serum

Nice that was published in 1975, however with planted tanks come other lighting that can affect medications. I was told by the veterinarian in charge of my discus to keep the lights off when treating as it is light sensitive.
I am not angry, i just have a low tolerance for ignorance being flaunted. Specifically as it has to do with something i have recommended. No im not a Dr. But i am a researcher and research has shown so many benefits of using salt that it is now the first step to medicating in our fishroom. With over 200 discus in tanks things do happen from time to time so i am prepared at all times for it.

Salt is a goto for us.

Tammy

[smsimcik]

Intense sunlight (UV A and B) will darken Oxytetracycline
Artificial aquarium light will not
Osol, A. and J.E. Hoover, et al. (eds.). Remington's Pharmaceutical Sciences. 15th ed. Easton, Pennsylvania: Mack Publishing Co., 1975., p. 1142

The binding of Oxytetracycline to calcium is inconsequential in aquarium water as it is in mammalian serum

Oh Really? You ever seen the teeth or bones of growing puppies or kittens damaged by tetracycline treatments? I have. Tetracycline binding with calcium in mammalian serum is not inconsequential.
We can argue as to how much calcium binding occurs with tetracycline in aquarium water but I know it does occur to some degree. I'll still avoid using tetracycline in hard water. There are other antibiotics to choose from.

[Rick S]

Well after some carefull thought I've decided to share my opinion. I stress this is my opinion only. I've been keeping aquariums since 1967 and have cured more health problems with salt than I have with medication. I'm not looking to argue or debate anyone, I speak from experience and thought I'd share it with this forum.

[smsimcik]

I agree Rick, salt is very useful for a variety of uses in freshwater aquaria, including discus aquaria.
Per Eric L. Johnson D.V.M. who wrote an article for TFH magazine he listed 6 good reasons to use salt:
1. At .1 to .3%, it kills many external parasites, most notably, Ich. It also will kill Chilodinella , Oodinium ( velvet or gold dust disease), gill flukes and body flukes, Trichodina, Spistylis, certain life stages of parasitic crustaseans (Lernea/Argulus) and there are others.
2. Salt inhibits the uptake of nitrites, thus protecting fish during break in of new tanks.
3. Salt reduces stress of sick fish by aiding osmoregulation. Less work/stress for the kidneys to excrete water from the body. Also less water being absorbed through the gills and skin.
4. Salt enhances the production of the slime coat by mildly irritating the mucous glands in the fish's skin. A benefit to a fish, especially discus, with bacterial ulcers or healing from other external injuries (parasites).
5. Salt is cheap. Cheaper than almost any drug.
6. It is one of the few "drugs" that will not harm the beneficial bacteria responsible for denitrification.

[seanyuki]

From what I’ve read.....Tetracyclines are light sensitive, and they turn brown when decomposing. This contributes to poor water quality and may be harmful to the fish. Water should be changed immediately after the bath treatment period is concluded. Due to years of misuse, several bacteria in many different facilities are now resistant to tetracyclines. Oxytetracycline still works adequately against most cases of Flavobacterium columnare (columnaris disease). In addition, calcium and magnesium bind to tetracycline and oxytetracycline, rendering them inactive. This means that with increasing water hardness (i.e., increases in calcium and magnesium levels), it is necessary to increase the dosages of these drugs in bath treatments.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/fa084

[Tkuilderd]

I want to mention, oxytetracycline was not my first choice in this case, however it being the only anyibiotic on hand and the fact that it treats both gram positive and gram negative bacteria made it a viable option. Also keep in mind that oxytetracycline is the best option when dealing with flavobacterium. It should not be used unless it is the only option though. Nitrofurazone would have been a better choice here but since he did not have it on hand we went with what he had.

Tammy

[captainandy]

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._for_treatment

Scholarly article on treatment of bacterial infections in Discus.
Dispels several anecdotal issues.

[smsimcik]

Good article Andy. Not sure exactly which anecdotal issues it dispels. It all sounded fairly straight forward to me.
My main take away was that after proper diagnosis and treatment with the appropriate antimicrobial, discus can be successfully cured, provided the fish isn't too far gone when the treatment is started. I will never argue that proper diagnosis is the key to successful treatment. The only problem is that an accurate diagnosis requires sending sick fish or tissue samples to a veterinary diagnostic lab. Someone with a large hatchery or fish room could justify going to that much trouble, but the average hobbyist doesn't have the time, money or inclination to do that. That's why 99.9% of the time hobbyists are just making educated guesses as to what they are treating. That's why most hobbyists simply treat with salt to reduce stress and stimulate some wound healing and a broad spectrum antibiotic in the hope that the pathogen is sensitive to it. Sometimes this works out well and sometimes it doesn't. But it doesn't entail much time or expense to try.

The article also mentions ciprofloxacin as a very effective antibiotic for treating bacterial infections in fish. I agree. It's particularly good against gram negative bacteria like Aeromonas and Pseudomonas. However, ciprofloxacin requires a prescription the U.S. and is not cheap. It's not a very practical option for the average hobbyist.