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Thread: "Hi" from Germany

  1. #1
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    Andre

    Default "Hi" from Germany

    Hello my name is Andre and i am from Germany.

    I am 4 weeks into my discus project and i thought i had it planned well and all went well but i am running into some issues for wich i find the right section and post some questions.

    Living in Germany, i went for stendker discus as you can imagine.
    I went for the smallest (cheapest), wich ich somehow regret after 4 weeks.
    Smalles available size means 5cm or 2inch

    Let me show you quick the tank, little less then 50gal/180liter
    This tank is just the raising tank lets say, once the group would outgrow the tank there will be a bigger one.
    Filtration is done with 2 eheim canisters, one proffesional one classic, the classic has a mechanic prefilter from sera attached to the loop.
    Also i run a K1 bioreactor internal that comes in a spongefilter style.

    IMG_20210607_064030~2.jpgIMG_20210607_064242.jpg
    This pictures are very early pics. Oh and as you see i got i varity of strains because its very hard to decide when you buy from stendker.


    Well i edit this welcome post since i do not find the real bang on topic section tbh. Along with this come mor pics wich is a good thing for you as well i think.

    All from the begin, 11 stendker discus
    5 german wonder
    3 kobalt
    3 marlboro red

    the german wonders beeing noticable smaller in size but this was no issue

    To be fair i was kind of celebrating success, when after lil more then 4 weeks, finally, problems come up.
    I was noticing that some grow very rapid and some do not, but i didnt pay too much attention because everyone was feeding quite happy on the stendker food.
    But i saw that one of the red one was claiming top position, not a bad thing for me i was prepared of establishing hacking order and so.
    I spread the food out the entire tank, but i think that only trained the red one that he has to guard the whole tank instead of the food plot, no kidding.

    Finally i have 2 losses ( the ones i thought grow slow) they might not grew at all and beeing bullied certainly did not help.
    So from the list above you can scratch off 1 marlboro red and 1 german wonder wich are not alive anymore...sad but true.

    I sepperated the one that now chases every other discus around, it does not even matter if food is in the tank or if i am near.
    He constantly pushes every other discus in the corners.

    With the bully seperated through a acrylic piece, the others atleast come out of heater corner again and show somewhat normal hacking order aggression and only around food.


    So i know my options are small and risky...
    Put more discus, best would be 4 in his size or even slightly bigger...

    What i find difficult to decide and get my head around is: Do i let it run, and loose more fish that become unhappy, or do i order some replacements +2 extra to help establishing a group one more time. AND do i end up in more mess when buying more fish, this is what the human brain would tell you. Is it?

    Enjoy the beautiful stendker juvis..and thank you for your help.
    PXL_20210623_062424961~2.jpgPXL_20210702_110959731.jpgPXL_20210627_115635785~2.jpgPXL_20210626_094604454~2.jpg
    Last edited by dre; 07-03-2021 at 01:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    The challenge I see with your fish is the lack of sufficient water changes. As a result, their growth is far below optimal. Both blue discus in picture 3 are showing signs of stunting, with the eye to body ratio much bigger than what should be. The key to growth is simply large, frequent water changes. Filtration is not a substitute.

    Bullying is not a significant problem with 11 fish. These are cichlids and they will always establish a pecking order. Aggression by the alpha is spread out over 10 fish and is anticipated. Feed on both sides of the tank and everyone will get to eat. To see what Stendkers can do with sufficient water changes, see Flachens at http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...Back-to-Basics. I received these four months ago at 8 cm. Note the proper eye to body ratio with proper growth.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  3. #3
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    I will say that both times I brought Stendker discus up from 2.5” I ran into the same problems. My blues looked the same but grew out of it. Both my German wonders were not as strong as the others and had to be removed to be grown out separately. Next the 2 white leopards stoped eating. This was with daily 50% water changes. The 2 checkerboards were growing like crazy. For me there was no aggression at all I the tank. I have to say hormones. When I removed the first wonder it hadn’t eaten in a week but once in new water it ate within the first half hour. Something was in the bigger tank that made it stop eating. For me remove when you see a problem when they are small. I reintroduced the wonders to the others about 2 months later and didn’t have a problem. But it is a much bigger tank.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    Did you visit Stendker's hatchery?


    Cliff

  5. #5
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    The challenge I see with your fish is the lack of sufficient water changes. As a result, their growth is far below optimal. Both blue discus in picture 3 are showing signs of stunting, with the eye to body ratio much bigger than what should be. The key to growth is simply large, frequent water changes. Filtration is not a substitute.

    Bullying is not a significant problem with 11 fish. These are cichlids and they will always establish a pecking order. Aggression by the alpha is spread out over 10 fish and is anticipated. Feed on both sides of the tank and everyone will get to eat. To see what Stendkers can do with sufficient water changes, see Flachens at http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...Back-to-Basics. I received these four months ago at 8 cm. Note the proper eye to body ratio with proper growth.
    I have to admit i was doing almost daily in the beginning. Beeing now fully cycled i got a bit lazy on the changes. I did about 40% yesterday and will do another 50 tomorrow.
    Lets hope they get back on road, I would agree that the aggression cant be the only thing since its more or less natural.
    Thank you

  6. #6
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus View Post
    Did you visit Stendker's hatchery?


    Cliff
    No i didnt, we have re-sellers with a good reputation that send directly from the facility. Atleast that was my understanding. What i think that stenker himself does not sell many fish to end customers, correct me if i am wrong guys.
    He works with shops in whole europe i guess, why bother selling picky germans 5-12 fish just making fun.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    To be another time fair and honest...
    They dont recommend buying those small fish, but hey they are cheaper and my last fish i raised had the size of my fingernail when we caught them in the wild.
    I may have to tell that they were carps they reached 2 pounds after 11 month.

    I wanted something to care for a little longer and since my dad had even breeding discus when i was a child i always was kind of sure to end up with some discus sooner or later.

    Let me bump up the water changes again for the first part.

    One more thing, i read that stendker keeps his discus very warm and that you keep small discus generaly speeking a bit on the warm side at 30C / 86F.
    They do feed slower on 80 i noticed that when i was learning about the heater...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    I will say that both times I brought Stendker discus up from 2.5” I ran into the same problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    I received these four months ago at 8 cm. Note the proper eye to body ratio with proper growth.
    How many fish you think they throw in a bin before they get to 8cm at the hatchery???
    Could be a reason they recommend start with 6.5cm or even 8. We are speaking 2 month easy, alot time to sort out stunted fish...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: "Hi" from Germany

    UPDATE:

    The prisoner is free. Putting him/her "away" did not affect the others in a good way.
    I really do think it would have made things worse, he was getting more and more upset about beeing put in this glass prison, and the shy ones fell into that mood too.
    Taking fish out to another tank is one thing, but they are too smart, it was like they feeling bad for him.

    Over the stretch of the day i changed 2 times 50% and YES, those fish do act a little bit better right away. Next water change tomorrow morning before work.
    Also flushed all the filters in tank water. Finally moved things around before i let the red one back, expecting the worst...but nothing really bad happen so far.

    Since no one is locked up, most fish are eating again. 2 of the german dream look so much better today. And they even begin swimming around again
    The 2 small Kobalt are not fully back on track, along with 1 or 2 smaller german dream they still try to hide...
    I read a ton of threads in this forum and getting a even smaller tank, just for the small ones that fall behind seems to make most sense to me.

    I am ambitioned to save this, I really like this fish...

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