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Thread: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

  1. #1
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    Cool Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Hey everyone!

    First time discus owner, long time aquarium enthusiast. I am sure my story is very similar to probably 99% of you, but I laid eyes on discus when I was a little kid (5ish?) and have always dreamed of owning some. Throughout the years I've contemplated, researched, and backed out for various reasons, but today I want to let you know that I've begun my discus journey!

    So this is where I need this wonderful community to 'check my work'. My main question has to do with water quality and the second is just affirmation of things I'm doing right. This is a big deal, and I want to do my best with what I have to ensure that my discus live a long and healthy life.

    The set up
    75 gallon, bare bottom tank, 4 driftwood with some java fern, anubias, amazon sword and a handful of duckweed
    Penn-Plax Canister Filter 1500 (up to 150 gal, sponge filter (for 75gal), and a uv sterilizer filter (up to 100 gal) (only on for a few hours 3 times a week)
    500w heater (water currently set at 83F)

    The cycle
    Taking biomedia from an established tank, I squeezed all that chocolaty gooshy stuff into my new canister filter and let it run. I introduced a school of ember tetras 5 days later, all are still alive alive.

    Today is 7/10, so that means I am on day 12 of the cycle.

    Water
    Ph: 7.6
    ppm GH/KH: 196.9 (11dKH)
    -unsure of ammonia spike... but it read 0.25ppm yesterday before water change.

    The discus
    I haven't purchased them yet, but will buy from Hans. I plan on getting 8-10 2.5", assuming losses along the way, but hoping to have a minimum of 6-7.

    I intend to purchase these discus at the end of July or the first week of August, which will give me about a full month cycle. I understand that cycles typically last 6-8 weeks, but my justification is that I put in some media from an established tank.

    My Questions
    - I do not intend to breed. Are my water parameters going to be okay for Stendkers? I worry about the KH/GH the most. I know 7.6 is an okay pH for Stendkers. Its not sustainable to get an r/o unit, nor set up a 55gal barrel of aged water. I plan on doing 25-30% water changes every 3 days.

    - Is it wise to assume discus loss and therefore legitimize purchasing over ideal number?

    - Do you think I should wait longer for the tank to cycle (wait full 8 weeks?) Would you recommend any turbo starter instead? If so, which one?

    - If you were in my current tank stage, what would you do differently?

    - When you think of all the 'essentials' of keeping Stendkers/discus, is there anything that I am absolutely missing?

    Thank you guys for taking the time to give me some feedback. I really appreciate it! I can't do this without you guys!

    Here's a picture of my tank on day 1 of the cycle. Since then I have a school of embers and my water is brown with tannis from the driftwood.

    64663796299__D2441A4D-412F-476A-B050-674141F0FA45.jpgScreen Shot 2021-07-10 at 3.24.35 PM.jpg

  2. #2
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    I have never cycled a tank in the normal way. I just change a ton of water every day until the filter catches up with the bio load. You most certainly should not expect losses. The the only reason I will buy more fish than I will need when they are adults is so that I can choose the ones that I like the best and find homes for the ones that don't suit my standards. Stendkers are a good choice.
    Mama Bear

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Thank you so much for your speedy reply! Can you clarify what you mean by the filter catching up with the bio load? How did you measure that to make sure it was ready to go?

  4. #4
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    I also have never cycled a tank. Since you have other tanks running just take media from them and add that to the canister. Hans is a good choice. But at 2.5” you should be changing 50% water daily till about 5” about 6 months. If going this way cycling won’t mater cause they’ll be getting new water daily. They will also need to be fed a lot 6-10x a day. So being your just starting you will probably want to start with bigger fish. Bigger also means you get what your looking for. At 2.5it hard for the seller to know if it’s going to look like the picture. Bigger means you can change water at the pace you added.

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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Everything sounds good, you seem very enthusiastic and determined. This is needed in case you have problems to deal with in the future. On that note there are a couple of things I would do different. I would get that water barrel for ageing because we can't always rely on what's coming out of the tap. And I would up the water changes to 50% daily. Good luck.

    Rick

  6. #6
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by JLee View Post
    Thank you so much for your speedy reply! Can you clarify what you mean by the filter catching up with the bio load? How did you measure that to make sure it was ready to go?
    The beneficial bacteria exists in tap water it just needs to be fed to the filter by the discus poo. It takes a couple of weeks of huge WC for the filter to adjust to the amount of waste that the Discus produce, same as when you add ammonia. Personally, I don't ever test the water when I've done that. I just watch the fish. I can tell by how they are feeling if the filter has cycled. I'll change 90% daily for 5 days, then drop down to 75%, then to 50% until I get to the amount of water I generally like to change daily in a Discus tank. 50% daily works for Discus.

    But since this is your first experience with Discus use the test kit every day both before and after you change water. You eventually want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate and about 5 nitrate.
    Mama Bear

  7. #7
    Registered Member Shan_Evolved's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Shan In blue


    Hey everyone!

    First time discus owner, long time aquarium enthusiast. I am sure my story is very similar to probably 99% of you, but I laid eyes on discus when I was a little kid (5ish?) and have always dreamed of owning some. Throughout the years I've contemplated, researched, and backed out for various reasons, but today I want to let you know that I've begun my discus journey!

    So this is where I need this wonderful community to 'check my work'. My main question has to do with water quality and the second is just affirmation of things I'm doing right. This is a big deal, and I want to do my best with what I have to ensure that my discus live a long and healthy life.

    The set up
    75 gallon, bare bottom tank, 4 driftwood with some java fern, anubias, amazon sword and a handful of duckweed
    I would be careful with driftwood. I started with some manzanita pieces and they started getting odd algae and reacted weird to heavy feedings. Also once you medicate the tank, I was always offput with the driftwood still harboring nasties post medication.
    Penn-Plax Canister Filter 1500 (up to 150 gal, sponge filter (for 75gal), and a uv sterilizer filter (up to 100 gal) (only on for a few hours 3 times a week)
    No need for canister my friend. In fact they do more harm than good. My experience with them is horrible too. They will pull up so much beefheart and nasties because of the high feeding dosages and it's become dirty and gross. It's so much easier to just run sponges, surface agitation and easily siphon up poop and debris throughout the day. Trust me.
    500w heater (water currently set at 83F)
    Do 84-86. Or even 88 while cycling.

    The cycle
    Taking biomedia from an established tank, I squeezed all that chocolaty gooshy stuff into my new canister filter and let it run. I introduced a school of ember tetras 5 days later, all are still alive alive.
    I don't f around with cycles anymore. I strictly did ammonia and fishless. I would get rid of the tetras and absolutely make sure your tank will cycle at least 3ppm ammonia in 24 hours. NO EXCEPTIONS. At least for me personally having nitrites really REALLY hurt. Months later even. Hours of hard work down the drain. Also just add in sponge filters now ASAP. Get them cycled too. You'll thank me later lol.

    Today is 7/10, so that means I am on day 12 of the cycle.
    Don't count the days, please! Just measure your parameters once or twice a week. Please be patient. Hit me up about all cycling questions here or on facebook (faster response).

    Water
    Ph: 7.6
    ppm GH/KH: 196.9 (11dKH)
    -unsure of ammonia spike... but it read 0.25ppm yesterday before water change.
    If youre unsure, keep testing until you ARE sure.

    The discus
    I haven't purchased them yet, but will buy from Hans. I plan on getting 8-10 2.5", assuming losses along the way, but hoping to have a minimum of 6-7.
    Don't expect losses. Do your best and ALL will survive. If your tank is properly cycled and you do the water changes you will literally be GOLD.

    I intend to purchase these discus at the end of July or the first week of August, which will give me about a full month cycle. I understand that cycles typically last 6-8 weeks, but my justification is that I put in some media from an established tank.

    My Questions
    - I do not intend to breed. Are my water parameters going to be okay for Stendkers? I worry about the KH/GH the most. I know 7.6 is an okay pH for Stendkers. Its not sustainable to get an r/o unit, nor set up a 55gal barrel of aged water. I plan on doing 25-30% water changes every 3 days.
    Make life easier for you. Get a barrel or trash can. Fill it up and take water from there (heater airstone w.e). Do more than 30% every 3 days. Especially if you feed a lot. Get a pump to make water changes easy. On a 75 I would do half a 55 drum's worth every other day.

    - Is it wise to assume discus loss and therefore legitimize purchasing over ideal number?
    Expect no losses. Even runts should not die. Only bad water and lack of water changes will kill them. They hardy AF.

    - Do you think I should wait longer for the tank to cycle (wait full 8 weeks?) Would you recommend any turbo starter instead? If so, which one?
    Dr tims bottled bacteria purchased directly from him helps, but what helps the most is being patient and seriously testing your water every week. Make SURE you can go through 3-4ppm ammonia into straight nitrate in 24 hrs.

    - If you were in my current tank stage, what would you do differently?
    See above.

    - When you think of all the 'essentials' of keeping Stendkers/discus, is there anything that I am absolutely missing?
    Too much focus on specific numbers. More focus on just stability and making life easier for you.

    Thank you guys for taking the time to give me some feedback. I really appreciate it! I can't do this without you guys!

    Welcome to the forums btw. I'm giving you the hard nails. But honestly you will love them. Please hit me up for more questions I only want my bros to suceed.

    -Shan


    Amateur discuskeeper, Professional doofus

  8. #8
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Shan just lived through your experience and prevailed over some newbie mistakes. I want to focus on two of his key learnings.

    1. Get your tank fully cycled. The only way to do this with a new tank is to measure ammonia and nitrate regularly. Don't guess, buy a kit. The most basic rule of quality control is that you cannot tell what's going on just by looking at it. I'm glad to provide anyone with a cycled sponge, so PM me if you need one. Alternatively, DrTim's Aquatics makes a great inoculum. Note that you have to use this before getting discus.

    2. Make big, daily water changes so your Stendkers will grow to 7". My grow out tanks get 100% daily. As long as you prepare for this, changing out a 75 gal tank takes about 25 minutes. You'll need a conditioning tank of similar capacity, hoses and a pump. If you do that, your discus will look like Shan's. If you don't, it doesn't really matter what else you do.

    Good luck, Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    My dude, thank you so much for your wisdom and advice. I was able to read through your journey and I admire the hard work you did! Watching your quick videos proved it. Reading about your canister/worm ordeal is FREAKING me out lol. I am confronted with a lot of hard choices in the next few weeks- from the hardscape all the way to the filtration system... I've already dumped a lot of money and I need to be wise with what I take out/keep. I did purchase an r/o filtration system, and I'm trying to figure out how to install it as it currently does not fit the specs from my bathroom sink (RIP).

    I do have an extra sponge filter that I am thinking about adding. I purchased a prefilter sponge for the canister hoping that will solve future problems.

    I am scheduled to leave the country for a week in September and if I purchase stendker juvies (let's say in mid august) and then dip for a week, that could potentially be bad (correct me if I'm wrong). I know that there's a whole system of leaving discus for a week, but if these guys are relatively new in my tank, it could be risky simply because of the lack of oversight/care for them while I'm gone. Sooooo perhaps when I come back the tank will be for sure cycled and I can begin my discus tank then. Patience is key, so I gotta play that game.

    I do have a water kit. I checked today and the readings have been consistent: Nitrate: 5.0ppm, Nitrite: .25ppm and Ammonia: .50ppm. I'm assuming that I'm getting close?

    Should I continue to do daily water changes?

    Thanks again, Shan!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Shan just lived through your experience and prevailed over some newbie mistakes. I want to focus on two of his key learnings.

    1. Get your tank fully cycled. The only way to do this with a new tank is to measure ammonia and nitrate regularly. Don't guess, buy a kit. The most basic rule of quality control is that you cannot tell what's going on just by looking at it. I'm glad to provide anyone with a cycled sponge, so PM me if you need one. Alternatively, DrTim's Aquatics makes a great inoculum. Note that you have to use this before getting discus.

    2. Make big, daily water changes so your Stendkers will grow to 7". My grow out tanks get 100% daily. As long as you prepare for this, changing out a 75 gal tank takes about 25 minutes. You'll need a conditioning tank of similar capacity, hoses and a pump. If you do that, your discus will look like Shan's. If you don't, it doesn't really matter what else you do.

    Good luck, Willie
    Willie, thank you for your advice. I do have a water test kit. Today's reading was: Nitrate: 5.0ppm, Nitrite: .25ppm and Ammonia: .50ppm. Do these numbers mean I am getting close?

    Which Dr.Tim's product are you referring to? The "one & only nitrifying bacteria"? Would Fritzyme 7 be a good option as well?

    I just bought an R/O filter, so I hope that will help with water quality. I don't know if it's sustainable to do 100% WC every day, but my goal is to do at least 50%WC a day.

    Thanks again for spending your time answering my (dumb) questions!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    The beneficial bacteria exists in tap water it just needs to be fed to the filter by the discus poo. It takes a couple of weeks of huge WC for the filter to adjust to the amount of waste that the Discus produce, same as when you add ammonia. Personally, I don't ever test the water when I've done that. I just watch the fish. I can tell by how they are feeling if the filter has cycled. I'll change 90% daily for 5 days, then drop down to 75%, then to 50% until I get to the amount of water I generally like to change daily in a Discus tank. 50% daily works for Discus.

    But since this is your first experience with Discus use the test kit every day both before and after you change water. You eventually want 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate and about 5 nitrate.
    Thank you for your feedback! So even though my tank is cycling to get to the ideal water quality, I should continue to do daily WCs?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick S View Post
    Everything sounds good, you seem very enthusiastic and determined. This is needed in case you have problems to deal with in the future. On that note there are a couple of things I would do different. I would get that water barrel for ageing because we can't always rely on what's coming out of the tap. And I would up the water changes to 50% daily. Good luck.

    Rick
    Thanks Rick. The water barrel isn't going to work since I'm on the second floor and space is super limited. However, I did purchase an r/o filter that can run from the bathroom faucet straight into my tank. Hopefully that will be a good compromise. And yes, 50% daily changes will be my goal! Thanks for your advice!

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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    I also have never cycled a tank. Since you have other tanks running just take media from them and add that to the canister. Hans is a good choice. But at 2.5” you should be changing 50% water daily till about 5” about 6 months. If going this way cycling won’t mater cause they’ll be getting new water daily. They will also need to be fed a lot 6-10x a day. So being your just starting you will probably want to start with bigger fish. Bigger also means you get what your looking for. At 2.5it hard for the seller to know if it’s going to look like the picture. Bigger means you can change water at the pace you added.
    Thanks really good freed back! Thanks Tom. I've been thinking a lot about getting bigger discus and I think I want to stick with the 2.5"s and try my luck!

  14. #14
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Willie, thank you for your advice. I do have a water test kit. Today's reading was: Nitrate: 5.0ppm, Nitrite: .25ppm and Ammonia: .50ppm. Do these numbers mean I am getting close?

    Nitrification is not a linear event. As long as you have any measurable nitrite, the tank is not cycled. When you consistently see 0 ppm nitrite, then you're good.

    Which Dr.Tim's product are you referring to? The "one & only nitrifying bacteria"? Would Fritzyme 7 be a good option as well?

    I haven't had any experience with Fritzyme. These two products are direct competitors, so I presume both would work - but no experience with Fritzyme.

    I just bought an R/O filter, so I hope that will help with water quality. I don't know if it's sustainable to do 100% WC every day, but my goal is to do at least 50%WC a day.

    You absolutely do not need R/O water to raise Stendker fry. It just adds another level of complexity to what you're doing. Changing water is far more important than getting a specific pH/KH.

    Thanks again for spending your time answering my (dumb) questions!

    Good luck with your journey. I would not order the discus until you've finished your travels.
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Check my work! (Future Stendkers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Willie, thank you for your advice. I do have a water test kit. Today's reading was: Nitrate: 5.0ppm, Nitrite: .25ppm and Ammonia: .50ppm. Do these numbers mean I am getting close?

    Nitrification is not a linear event. As long as you have any measurable nitrite, the tank is not cycled. When you consistently see 0 ppm nitrite, then you're good.

    Which Dr.Tim's product are you referring to? The "one & only nitrifying bacteria"? Would Fritzyme 7 be a good option as well?

    I haven't had any experience with Fritzyme. These two products are direct competitors, so I presume both would work - but no experience with Fritzyme.

    I just bought an R/O filter, so I hope that will help with water quality. I don't know if it's sustainable to do 100% WC every day, but my goal is to do at least 50%WC a day.

    You absolutely do not need R/O water to raise Stendker fry. It just adds another level of complexity to what you're doing. Changing water is far more important than getting a specific pH/KH.

    Thanks again for spending your time answering my (dumb) questions!

    Good luck with your journey. I would not order the discus until you've finished your travels.
    Thanks Willie. The justification with the r/o filter was to 'make up' for the inability to have a barrel for aged water. It seems like aged water/ ro water is a 'must' or at least 'highly recommended'. Perhaps people across the board in discus keeping will vary on this. I understand your point on Stendkers though, which is why I wanted to raise them than any other strain of discus. I'm guessing there's a forum on this already? I'll look around, but would welcome your thoughts here. Thanks again!

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