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Thread: Help Fry keep dying

  1. #1
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    Question Help Fry keep dying

    All,
    I have young pair of Red Marlboro's and they spawn every week, the eggs at first were not fertile but the last five batches have all been fertile and hatch.

    After the eggs hatch and become wigglers the parents move them from one side of the tank to the other.

    I live in Chicagoland and use a RO filter for the water.

    The fry stay wiggling against the side of the aquarium (they don't like cones and just like to spawn on the glass.

    Both parents seem attentive to the fry.

    The tank is 20 gallon tank drilled in both places and I do over flow water changes.

    I am using to wall mounted sponge filters.

    So the problem is the fry never attach and seem to die immediately after free swimming (like the same day).

    1. Questions could the fact I am only using RO water cause this?
    2. Should I add tap water after they spawn?
    3. Will lowering the PH help with the free swimming as my ph is neutral
    4. What are peoples thoughts on Discus Trace after the fish spawn.
    5. I do have some peat in the sponge filter containers could that be causing a problem.
    6. My fish appear to lay eggs three days after the fry become free swimming.
    7. Other thoughts?

  2. #2
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    I wonder if the lack of minerals in the water are affecting your fry? I am using Cary Strong's suggestions for breeding where he suggests a conductivity of 80/TDS 40 for encouraging the pair to spawn and preventing the eggs from turning white. For me this is a gallon of tap to 40 or so gallons of RO. After the eggs are laid I am using RO Right to bring the TDS to about a 100 or so. I still use the same ratio of RO to tap after the eggs are laid.

    The reason for using all this RO water is to keep the ph in the mid 7s. I am breeding F1s from wild parents. I am sure Willie and Chiff will chime in with much better advice
    Pat
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  3. #3
    Silver Member Willie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    Getting fry to attach is a challenge with pigeon based fish, particularly the newer strains with no black left. The problem is that fry can see dark colors better than light ones and often have trouble finding the parents which are particularly light. I address the problem in the following manner:

    1. Reduce the water level in the tank to increase the chance of contact. In drastic cases, I've lowered the water until the top of the dorsal fin just breaks the water surface with no ill effects.
    2. Cover/Paint the tank sides with a light color so the parents stand out by contrast. Cary Strong suggested painting the tank light blue, which works with every type of discus - except Blue Diamonds.
    3. Remove the sponge filter which is black. The water quality will worsen, but the critical stage is just the first 24 hours from free swimming and they fry can survive this.
    3. Remove the sponge filter which produces agitation. Parents will shake to attract fry, but that motion is not perceptible when a filter is already agitating the water.

    Once they attach, I'd do a 30% - 50% water change but wait another 24 hours before returning the sponge filter. Once the fry start to feed, they'll be able to see the parents better. Doing all these things will usually work for the most demanding strains - including albinos. I'd suggest you do #3 and #4 first.

    The good news is that subsequent batches will attach better after the first successful batch.

    Good luck with this, Willie
    At my age, everything is irritating.

  4. #4
    Homesteader RogueDiscus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    I like the idea (without actually having conducted controlled tests) of adding back in some minerals as Pat/Carey suggest. You may be able to do that with just your tap water. I wouldn't bother with Discus Trace. The only real other suggestion I have has to do with lighting. Trying to make the parents darker in the overall environment like Willie suggested. Leave the tank lights off but have light in the room. I like having a small night light in the room, also.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    Seventh day free swimming dieing are they swimming at the water surface or or at the bottom of the tank?

    C!iff

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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus View Post
    Seventh day free swimming dieing are they swimming at the water surface or or at the bottom of the tank?

    C!iff
    As soon as they detach they seem to go to the surface.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    Quote Originally Posted by jdl View Post
    As soon as they detach they seem to go to the surface.
    The fry on the surface usually would stay on the surface for a few hours then swim toward the parents.

    Cliff

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help Fry keep dying

    IMHO hardness only affects fertilization rate (lower hardness better) and later growth (bit higher hardness better) but shouldn't affect fry survival rate during the first few days.

    I assume it is not a community tank. Make sure you leave a soft light on during the night, dim the lights or leave a light on in the room. Make sure the there is no current and that the fry is far away from air bubbles. Those are two factors that made me lose fry in the past.

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