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Thread: Covid Situation

  1. #46
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    Don Speers

    Default Re: Covid Situation

    What upsets me is that there is significant variability in mask effectiveness and to date there is no major push to encourage or mandate use of either the KN-95, or N-95 which if you choose to use a mask, I would recommend. Even using a KN/N-95, given how infectious the delta/lambda variant is , I wonder how effective mask use is and for how long in a setting such as you described. We should be actively studying that in order to make more effective public health recommendations. That would be a better message for Fouche than Christmas plans.

    Also, there are a whole host of other issues that we should be studying aggressively and not relying on other countries research to determine policy, such as whether or not to exempt folks (who already had COVID and show antibody levels) from immunization mandates and also who should be getting boosters. I think Liz is correct that an assessment of antibody levels should be part of the determination to get boosters at least until we have some additional safety data.

    Finally I am very worried about pushing this vaccine in children, especially the 0-4 age group who have almost no mortality from the illness. Similar mortality was seen with chicken pox and it took the CDC over two years of study (after FDA approval) to choose to recommend wide spread usage and an additional 10 years for every state to mandate the vaccine. We do occasionally get this wrong, look up the original Rota virus complication rate requiring it be withdrawn from the market. Sometimes when you want it badly, you get it badly.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Covid Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by famtsberg View Post
    As a fellow nurse two things. Thanks for what you do, and well said.
    This is an absolute lie perpetrated by anti-vaxers. Just do the research and the rates of side effects are much, much, less than common conditions - like driving, obesity, smoking, etc. etc.
    Any health care professional who feeds into this antivaxer frenzie should lose their license. They are not epidemiologists, virologists or public health professionals.

  3. #48
    Registered Member pastry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Situation

    Andy, only 6-7 weeks ago, I felt the same. Then a good friend lost his Uncle who was in great health... not to COVID... but his longtime primary physician put "COVID Vaccine" on death certificate (and that M.D. was vaccinated).

    I still think as a human race, we are all better off getting the vaccine... but with rushing multiple vaccines through a VERY abbreviated testing process, the risk level of deadly affects on a larger percentage of people than vaccines tested faster than the European process (the U.S. process is always the slowest) was known. I agree with fast tracking the current vaccines... and I'm vaccinated... but I am a believer in the right to have a choice... although I hate saying that since I'm betting that that the vast majority of unvaccinated, healthy people would have little to no side effects.

    That MD is now putting his "MD" on the line as "officials" are demanding he changes cause of death. I don't think there's a simple answer anymore -- but I know what you mean.
    -Elliot

  4. #49
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Situation

    Just too bad that the unvaccinated folks are taking up so much hospital space and leaving those that need life saving surgery and treatments are being put on hold due to over crowding and over worked staff. Yes, and some folks that have been vaccinated can wind up in the hospital too, but it is few. I don't know what it'll take to convince some folks to get the shot to slow this bug down. There seems to be pockets of wide spread cases in both countries; seems a lot depends on the leaders who are running the show.

  5. #50
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    Don Speers

    Default Re: Covid Situation

    It is a double tap as far as impact as the longer we allow the epidemic to continue the larger the pool of vertical transmission and higher risk of the evolution of more variants, less and less susceptible to vaccines. I am generally a libertarian but given the public risk it seems that the evidence for mandatory vaccines for adults is overwhelming, and for adolescents the data is also strong but the risk is much less in this population unless they have additional high risk conditions.

    I get that the immunization is not risk free, FWIW neither is the flu shot, there are both long term risks and occasional deaths. Same holds true for essentially all of the mandatory pediatric immunizations. I also feel like the risks are being whitewashed by the CDC, but risk of severe complications is as far as I can tell much much less than the disease. Even seat belts/air bags have risks.

    It is truly sad that the country that developed the first vaccine is # 18 in terms of % vaccinated, and still leads the world in Covid deaths over 2K/day. Mervin, Canada is doing much better than we are. For anyone interested this website has a wealth of data in re Covid. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Vaccine rates by country can be found at https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

    Mervin you are also correct that deferred medical care has massive negative effects. Just looking at the total excess death rate gives a better estimate of actual Covid impact both as some cases are probably missed and other required medical care is deferred. As of the end of April 2021 the estimated excess US deaths since the beginning of Covid was ~ 900,000, far more than the ~ 594,000 reported Covid deaths as of that date. Some of that also reflects the explosion of narcotic OD deaths (over 93,000 in 2020) but that can in part be attributed to Covid as well.

  6. #51
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Covid Situation

    I'm glad that we have a little something to fight this battle with. Just imagine what it would be like today if no one had their shot. What a good time to be in the funeral business.

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