Stendker Discus head standing with lump near base of tail

[Paul_ds1985]

Hi all,

I live in the UK and have an issue with my adult female Discus:

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
The problem started about 3 months ago whereby 1 of my discus was struggling to stay upright. She would happily swim towards the tank to feed, then slowly start to headstand again


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
I don't see anything else wrong besides head standing with the lump. Although she does occasionally have white poop, she does separate herself though from the others.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
When i first noticed this problem she was pooping white, lump near base of the tail and head-standing, i assumed right away is was swim bladder or Hole-in-the-head (At this point she wasn't eating). I removed her from the tank tried an epson salt bath, dosing 1 table spoon per gallon (7 tablespoons in total in a 7 gallon tub), it looked to relieve the "pressure" as she seemed to swim ok. I put her back into the main tank and noticed after a short while she was back to head-standing. I removed and quarantined her in a 19 gallon tank and dosed 1 teaspoon per 1 gallon of Epsom salt. She seemed to swim ok in the smaller tank but was pooping white alot. I increased the temperature from 86F to 95F and this after about 2 weeks noticed all the white poop had gone and seemed happier, i could see small pits on her forehead. Assuming now she was swimming ok, no more white poop and was looking better, i put her back into the main tank and she seemed good (eating and swimming normally). But after a few hours she started to headstand and started to poop white a few weeks after. I then tried dosing 2 rounds of treatment eSHa Hexamita in the main tank and this didn't really seem to do anything, although the white poop did disappear for a short while, all this was 2 months ago. Fast forward today for the last month she is still head-standing, has the lump, poops white occasionally but is still eating


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
118 Gallons, 7 adult Discus

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
50% once a week

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
1 year with a light sand substrate 1cm

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No I dont age my water - Stendker Discus are bred using tap water

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _86____

- ph __7.5___

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading _0___

- nitrate reading __10__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water _0___

- municipal water ___0_

- RO water ___0_

- Tap water - 100% (attach a filter to remove metals, chlorine etc)

10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
3x per day with stendker goodheart. Occasionally throw in Discus Bio gold.

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

Here is a link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...DG?usp=sharing


FYI the video clips/pictures have been taken recently. The pictures in quarantine were taken a few months back

[seanyuki]

Video converted

Normally Epsom Salt is used to purge the intestinal tract of the fish. It is used for bloat and I dose one tablespoon per 10 gallons. Many times you will see results in 4 hours or if no improvement after 24 hours you most likely have a bacterial infection .

In UK hard to get the fish medications....Fish use their swimbladder for buoyancy and stability. When it becomes infected with Aeromonas or Pseudomonas bacteria, it can cause stress......worth trying and use Acriflavine.

https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-prod...der-treatment/

[Paul_ds1985]

Thanks for the response. She isn't looking good today, I'm keeping a close eye on her. If the "worst" should happen is it best thing to do? I'd like to see what that lump on the rear of the tail is.

[jeep]

I'm not sure what the lump near the tail is but I do see a bulge in the swim bladder area. By the time this becomes noticeable, the condition has progressed beyond the ability to treat them.

You can try the epsom salts at 1 TBS per 10 gallons. Do you have a smaller hospital tank? You can try lowering the water to just above the dorsal. I've heard some people have success with Microbe Lift Artemiss for internal infections. It's an all natural expellant and may be available in your area. But, if this is the swim bladder the chances of saving it are slim...

[Paul_ds1985]

I have moved the discus from the main tank into a hospital tank. The picture on the right you can see the "lump" is quite large, but since moving it into the smaller tank with some salt it's not even noticeable (picture on the left), she's not happy to be fair being In the smaller tank. How long should I keep her in there for?

4C037447-0549-4C43-9CA4-E8901049F0D8_1_105_c.jpg61C86939-37DB-4086-BDA6-7CF2185D6C63_1_105_c.jpg

I'm not sure what the lump near the tail is but I do see a bulge in the swim bladder area. By the time this becomes noticeable, the condition has progressed beyond the ability to treat them.

You can try the epsom salts at 1 TBS per 10 gallons. Do you have a smaller hospital tank? You can try lowering the water to just above the dorsal. I've heard some people have success with Microbe Lift Artemiss for internal infections. It's an all natural expellant and may be available in your area. But, if this is the swim bladder the chances of saving it are slim...

[jeep]

I would keep the temp down to around 82 and add 3 TBS regular salt per 10 gallons. Clean water daily and replace the salt removed during water changes for 10-14 days. The duration depends on recovery. If successful, the epsom salts should work within 24 hours if this is an obstruction.

In the video I thought I saw a bulge in the circled area. If so then this is the swim bladder. Lowering the water level will give the bladder a rest, but like I said, if it's infected it has very little chance of healing, and if it's ruptured, I'm sorry to say there is no chance. Bladders do not heal...

I tend to think the tail area is secondary but salt should help. Microbe Lift would be a help as well...

bladder.jpg

[bluelagoon]

One other thing about question number 7. Your comment that Stendker discus are bred using tap water. And that you change 50% once a week. That may be so, but folks general age tap water to bring it to an equilibrium if changing more than 25-30% at a time. Not only for PH swings but also other gases coming from pressurized water.. Stendker also uses giant RO filters to reuse the water over again so their water is not coming start from the tap. There was a video on how they store water, but I can't find it. When they say tap water, I think it simply means that you can put them in most tap water with variables of PH and hardness.

[bluelagoon]

What kind of filter are you using for your tap water?

[LizStreithorst]

Mervin, I'm with you when it comes to ageing. My fish told me that they were becoming less happy in unaged water.. It all depends on the pH swing. There are some who have had luck to growing 2" Discus to 6" using straight tap only.

[bluelagoon]

My first discus tank was a planted and tap water. A lot of work with EI dosing and they grew out to be 5.5- 6.5". But I could see the stress it was causing after a WC. Then after a year or so I started aging water and the fish didn't even notice a WC. Even though my PH stayed the same. Now I age my water to do large WC's on all species and haven't used meds since in the main tanks. Sometimes when new fish come in I use malachite green and formalin though.