Recurring fungus problem, even after antibiotics

[rajdude]

Hi folks,
I have a fungus problem on 2 of my Discus. I treated the two with Erythromycin (from API) in a hospital tank. Fungus goes away after 2-3 days. I do the whole 4 day course.
I put them back into DT, after a few days fungus comes back. One of the fish dies before I am able to treat them.
I treated the one left again, same 4 day course. Fungus goes and comes back like same time.

What would you recommend I do next?

It eats, but gingerly.
I raised the temp to 88F (I keep them at 84F)
All my fish are around 5" in size
75 gallon planted tank + 30 gallon sump.
8 fish left
They are Stendker variety from Discus Hans

Thank you for your advice!
-Raj

[rajdude]

Here are a couple of photos (taken using a cell, sorry about the poor quality)

I am talking about the orange one in the center.



and



The dots in the water are due to BH disintegrating....I just fed them. I clean up after.

[LizStreithorst]

Please fill out this form. We can't help you without having more information. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete

[rajdude]

Ooops...sorry......did not know that this form existed.
Here is it:
(Thank you!)

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I have a fungus problem on 2 of my Discus. I treated the two with Erythromycin (from API) in a hospital tank. Fungus goes away after 2-3 days. I do the whole 4 day course.
I put them back into DT, after a few days fungus comes back. One of the fish dies before I am able to treat them.
I treated the one left again, same 4 day course. Fungus goes and comes back like same time.

I know why this may have happened....bad water parameters. My RO-DI system failed and it took me a few days to get a new membrane etc....meanwhile the Ammonia spiked.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

White fungus growth present on fins
Not eating
Hiding


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

EM Erythromycin (from API)
4 days treatment. Fungus goes away after 2-3 days. I do the whole 4 day course.
Repeated after a few days.

Also dosed 30 ml Pimafix into the display tank, hoping to stop the spread to other fish. Fungus has not spread to others, yet.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

75 gallon + 30 gallon sump
Water capacity = 70 gallons approx.
9 Discus fish, approx 5" each
Tank started in April end 2021
Fully cycled


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

Used to do 10 gallons every day.
Around a week back, I started doing approx. 23 gallons every day (because I found that Nitrates were too high, like 40-60)


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Running since April end 2021
No
Substrate (inert black blasting gravel + some white gravel from Petco)
2 to 4" (front to back)
Back has stones under gravel


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

I have a little different setup than most:
Using RO-DI water
Re-mineralized using Seachem Equilibrium to 4GH
I have a 55 gallon barrel in the basement
I have a heater in it

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
None (not needed because I am using RO-DI water)

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____ usually 84, right now at 88 (because some of Discus are not eating)

- ph _____ 7 early in the morning (off gassed) going down to 6.5 by the time the lights go out 3:15 PM

- ammonia reading ____ Used to hover around 0.5 earlier. Now after larger water changes, it is zero

- nitrite reading ____ zero

- nitrate reading ____ Used to hover around 40-60 earlier. Now after larger water changes, it is 10-20 (hard to read)

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____

Using RO-DI water. Re-mineralized using Seachem Equilibrium to 4GH


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

None

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

They usually eat BH style food sold by Discus Hans.
I also feed frozen blood worms, Mysis Shrimp, shopped krill from time to time as a treat or as an incentive to eat.
They used to get fed three times a day
Caused ammonia spikes and high Nitrates and were not eating well anyway.
For the past week, I have reduced feedings to 2 x day

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

Photos can be seen above.


Thank you for reading all this and advising.

[rajdude]

Hello everyone, Do you have any tips for me please?
Here is the progression.

August 29 photo. Still in the display tank (DT)...was getting worse so I put it into the hospital tank that day
(sorry, out of focus photo, but you get the idea)

[rajdude]

August 30 photo.
After a day in the tank with Erythromycin, the fungus seemed to reduce a tiny bit....

[rajdude]

August 31st evening, 6:30 PM

Fungus seems to have all gone. But fish seems to be shedding its slime coat.
Lots of it is sitting on the tank bottom. strands seem to be "flaking off".

Note: I had put the blue diamond along with the orange one in the hospital tank because the blue diamond also seemed to be developing a white spot on its fin. Now that spot is gone.

However, Both fish are not eating :-(

[LizStreithorst]

My question is why you are using RO DI? What is wrong with your tap water.

My comment is that the problem should go away with more WC. With a set up like yours I'd be changing about 60% until the fish were fully cured and then go down to 30 to 40 percent daily. Ammonia should always read 0. You should aim for a nitrate reading between 5 and 10.

As far as meds the only thing I would use is salt. Brian is the expert on salt and will tell you how much. The big problem with salt is that plants do not like it. Could you remove them until the fish were totally well?

BTW you have a very beautiful tank.

[rajdude]

Here are what he looks like today (Sept 2)
Note: Today is day 4 of the antibiotic treatment.....according to the notes on the medicine package.........4 days is a full course.
As it had happened 2 times before already, by day 4 he looks he is pretty much cured...but the million dollar question is:

How can I stop this from recurring?
It already has happened 3 times!





Here are both of them in the hospital tank

[rajdude]

My question is why you are using RO DI? What is wrong with your tap water.

Well, it really boils down to "this is just a personal preference" I guess

But I do have multiple reasons (which I can state)

1. I want to start with a clean slate.....start with absolutely nothing in my water........add Seachem Equilibrium......that's it. This strategy works very well for my plants also.....I know exactly what fertilizer is in my water.
2. My tap water has chloramine, which are difficult to take out by merely aging the water.
3. I heard too many stories of Discus (and other fish) suddenly dying because the tap water guys switched from something to something else.........and / or introduced something new in their tap water
3. and
4, because I can do it.... make RO-DI water!!

My comment is that the problem should go away with more WC. With a set up like yours I'd be changing about 60% until the fish were fully cured and then go down to 30 to 40 percent daily. Ammonia should always read 0. You should aim for a nitrate reading between 5 and 10.

As far as meds the only thing I would use is salt. Brian is the expert on salt and will tell you how much. The big problem with salt is that plants do not like it. Could you remove them until the fish were totally well?

Yes, I agree with more WC.....I am already changing 38% water every day in my DT (display tank)
Today's readings:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrate = 10

But I suspect something more needs to be done to this particular fish........the moment I put it back into my DT, it will again get fungus on it. Already has happened three times. I also think its slime coat is damaged now. Maybe it needs time to heal? I really do not know what else I can do.

Note: These two fish are in a 10 gallon hospital tank. 60-70% of its water is being changed every day.

BTW you have a very beautiful tank.

Thank you! I appreciate it

[bluelagoon]

What ever it is might be in the main tank. Sometimes the whole tank needs treatment.

[bluelagoon]

After reading the post again, I'm with Liz. More water needs to be changed. Seems you may have old dirty water in your main tank. Since you have been leaving a big percentage behind on every WC. Seems like old tank syndrome. You need to dilute it with clean water. Discus and pristine water go hand in hand.

[rajdude]

I think you are correct, I may have OTS
Just checked the parameters today morning and things point to OTS

pH = 6
Ammonia =0
Nitrate = 20
GH = 4

pH is the real outlier.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention....I have heard about OTS but did not realize that my tank may be having this problem.

But still....I need to decide what do I do with this one yellow fish. I bet if I put it back into my DT, it will get fungus again.
Maybe I should leave it in the HT until the DT's water parameters get better
Also I gotta change DT's parameters slowly. I should not do a super large water change.

After reading the post again, I'm with Liz. More water needs to be changed. Seems you may have old dirty water in your main tank. Since you have been leaving a big percentage behind on every WC. Seems like old tank syndrome. You need to dilute it with clean water. Discus and pristine water go hand in hand.

[captainandy]

First of all, erythromycin does not touch fungus.
Second, if the fish is eating, just keep up with the water changes and make sure the tank is well aerated.

[bluelagoon]

That didn't look like fungus. More like a lot of pimples from old water. Probably caused by old depleted/dirty water and got into the pores on the skin.