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Thread: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

  1. #1
    Registered Member Pet Detective's Avatar
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    Default Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    When my checkerboard discus stopped eating for several days, I put her in a 20 gallon quarantine tank three days ago. Not sure if she had something serious going on, I raised the temp in the QT to 90 degrees and added 4 tablespoons of aquarium salt. I had been feeding all six fish in the main 65 gallon tank a meaty blend sold to me from the breeder. The other five seem to be fine except for some bullying by one. I fed my quarantined fish frozen blood worms yesterday and again today and she didn't eat any of it. I took some photos of the poo that came out yesterday, see photo 1. I also took a better shot of her whole body today and noticed dark spots appearing all over her. I have Bactocide 2 on hand but I don't want to add that to the tank unless it is safe to mix it with the salted water. If I do, should I remove the carbon filter?
    Any idea what the spots are that are appearing on her body? I have only had the six discus in the 65 gallon tank for three weeks, all of the others are doing well. I have read that the spots might be because the main tank has a black background and black gravel with plants making the tank dark. The QT is bare bottom with a fake decoration. Could the spots be something like a parasite? The only symptoms I can share are not eating, yellow/whitish colored poo and spots. Ph in the QT tank dropped to 6.8 to 6 after adding the salt.

    31DD9F99-B029-45DC-945D-07F9A68FB473.jpgIMG_1874.jpg
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Hello Bernie.
    First things first. There is a form you should fill out to help get a better idea of what thing/ things are going on here.

    Please complete this questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

    DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



    Tank/Water

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.


    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).


    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?


    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


    8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?


    9. Parameters and water source;

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp _____

    - ph _____

    - ammonia reading ____

    - nitrite reading ____

    - nitrate reading ____

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water ____

    - municipal water ____

    - RO water ____


    10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


    11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.



    12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

    The black “ spots” seem to be peppering unless there are more I’m not seeing. That is a pigeon bloods equivalent of stress bars.
    The white poo is likely hexamita. You want to use metro to treat for that ( assuming it is hex). Dosing amounts can be found in Disease/Sickness and Medication section and is usually with the medicine when purchased.
    The higher temps will assist with treatment if it is hex. And yes, before adding any medication, you need to remove all carbon.
    As for your ph dropping, the salt should have zero effect in falling levels or will cause PH to rise depending on the salt used. If you can fill out the form we can better help. If we know what your source water is and your water change schedule with amounts changed we can figure out why the PH is crashing. Monitor that closely as that can mess up the fish really bad really fast.
    Thanks, Matt

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    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Like mentioned Metro is the drug of choice when treating Hex. Bactocide 2 seems like a natural remedy like Pimafix and Melafix, both useless for treating most internal issues. I have never used it but that would give me reason not to use it.

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    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    I think it looks more like the kind of poop you get from worms. Absolute wormer and levamasol are both good choices.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by matt parsons View Post
    Hello Bernie.
    First things first. There is a form you should fill out to help get a better idea of what thing/ things are going on here.

    Please complete this questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

    DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


    Problem

    1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
    The checkerboard discus stopped eating about 6 days ago

    2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

    Stopped Eating

    3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

    Transferred her to the quarantine tank after 3 days of no eating. Added 4 tbls of aquarium salt one day later

    Tank/Water municipal water treated with API dechloranizer

    4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

    Main tank is 65 gallons: Introduced six 4" stendkar discus on August 18th. Had 8 tetras and 4 siamese algae eaters and one 2" pleco

    5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
    30% water changes twice a week

    6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
    Tank has been established with plants, half gravel half sand on the bottom, using a penn Plax canister filter and UV filter
    The QT tank is bare bottom with an internal filter

    7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing. I do age the water for the main tank as it is connected to a manual/auto changing system.


    8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

    API

    9. Parameters and water source;
    Municipal water

    Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


    - temp __89___ the 20 gal QT 88 degrees

    - ph __6.8___ QT 6.0

    - ammonia reading __0__ QT 0.0

    - nitrite reading __0__ QT 0

    - nitrate reading ___5_ QT 20

    What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

    - well water ____

    - municipal water _X___

    - RO water ____


    10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. NO


    11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
    Feed them twice a day with meaty blend sold to me from the breeder



    12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

    The black “ spots” seem to be peppering unless there are more I’m not seeing. That is a pigeon bloods equivalent of stress bars.
    The white poo is likely hexamita. You want to use metro to treat for that ( assuming it is hex). Dosing amounts can be found in Disease/Sickness and Medication section and is usually with the medicine when purchased.
    The higher temps will assist with treatment if it is hex. And yes, before adding any medication, you need to remove all carbon.
    As for your ph dropping, the salt should have zero effect in falling levels or will cause PH to rise depending on the salt used. If you can fill out the form we can better help. If we know what your source water is and your water change schedule with amounts changed we can figure out why the PH is crashing. Monitor that closely as that can mess up the fish really bad really fast.
    Thanks, Matt
    Water Temp: 86 degrees in the 65 gallon tank ​then raised it to 90 when I noticed the problem

    65 Gallon Tank:
    GH: 71.6
    KH: 35

    20 Gallon Quarantine Tank
    GH: 30
    KH: 0
    Salt: 12%

    These readings were all taken this morning with an API test kit, and digital ph monitor. I am in the process of doing a water change on the QT tank now.
    Also, the water temp in the quarantine tank is 88 degrees
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    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    I think it looks more like the kind of poop you get from worms. Absolute wormer and levamasol are both good choices.
    That also crossed my mind seeing the yellow.

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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    I ordered Metronidazole and the Bactocide 2 from Discus.comon Tuesday, they shipped both on Wednesday in separate packages, the Bactocide arrived yesterday, with the holiday tomorrow, I won't get the metro until Tuesday. The water change is complete (100%). How sick do you think she is? I don't know what to do other than wait until Tuesday. The only meds I have on hand are for external diseases, melafix, Lifeguard and the bactocide. Should I put salt back in the tank? Raise the temp more?
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    I also have Rapidcure
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    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    That's only for external parasites. Your fish has internal parasites.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    I would wait until you get the metro and treat then. I would not throw a bunch of chemicals at your fish. Only treat what you are sure is wrong.
    I would recommend you treat all the fish together too.
    Even though the others are not showing signs right now, when they get stressed they will. Hexamita is in their stomachs and Inturn in their fecal matter. Discus are grazers so they often mouth other fishes fecal matter so they get hex too. Discus can have hex a long time before they show symptoms. Once they get stressed the hex takes hold.
    I’m not sure on your GH and KH readings and why they are so different. I assume the general hardness is in ppm which is soft and would explain why the ph crashes but the carbonate hardness in your 65 is high even for a salt water tank if I’m reading that right. If that value is correct your ph should be high. In the qt tank it is zero? That would make sense why the ph drops.
    Can you verify if that is correct? Can you test your source water?
    Keep us posted once you get your metro.
    Also post your water parameters straight out of the tap and in both tanks. Getting your ph stable will help. Ph swings especially alkaline to acidic are very stressful on your fish. It can kill them so figuring out how to stabilize them is very important. Do some reading on the medication and on water chemistry here on the forum. There are great articles which will save both yourself and your fish a lot of stress
    Respectfully, Matt

  11. #11
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Matt, I believe that the Kh is indicative of susceptibility to pH crash not gH. Still the differences between the two tanks is stark. I agree that treating all the fish together is the best idea. It's what I'd do, too.

    Bernie what are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings of the 65 gallon?
    Mama Bear

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    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Not sure but your fish are new to you. How long have you had them? Have you seen the above discus eat since you got it? The black spots are peppering. It could be stress related it could be dark background or bottom. But before you medicate let the discus sit for a few days the way it is. Blood worms are not the best food. Try freeze dried black worms or even freeze dried tubifex worms.
    Last edited by Iminit; 09-05-2021 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #13
    Registered Member Pet Detective's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Thank you all for the great advice about my sick baby. After much research on the Hexamita, I think you all got it right. I was very disappointed that the metronidazole was not going to get here before Tuesday so looking at every other possible option, I found an article that recommended General Cure or Metronidazole. I was able to purchase the General Cure at Petsmart and was able to begin treatment today.
    I have stopped feeding my sick checkerboard for now. Since I did the water change today the water quality is back to perfect. The ph came up to 6.5. Since it is possible that my other fish in the 65 gallon tank may have the same problems, without symptoms, would there be any harm in treating the whole tank as a preventive measure?
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Matt,
    I did a water change on both tanks today. The ph in the QT came up to 6.5. I will do a complete water test on both tanks again tomorrow and update. I was able to purchase General Cure today at Petsmart to begin treatment. I am feeling much better now that this wonderful forum helped me identify that it is an internal parasite causing the problem. Thank you for your thorough reply to my post.
    Pet Detective

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    Registered Member Pet Detective's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it Safe to add Medicine to tank after Adding Salt?

    Thank you Liz, The water perimeters in the 65 gallon tank were all good, with a moderate nitrate rise to 5. I did a 50% water change in the 65 gallon tank today and 100% in the quarantine tank. Ph came up to 6.5 in the QT tank. I will do a complete water test on both tanks tomorrow. Thank you for your assertive diagnosis about the internal parasite. I feel so much better now that I know what is wrong. I was able to purchase General Cure at Petsmart and was able to begin treatment today.
    If I should treat the 65 gallon tank, I can start that on Tuesday when the metronidazole gets here. Please advise.
    Pet Detective

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