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Thread: Linear Line Effussion?

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    Default Linear Line Effussion?

    Hello everyone. This is my first post and am new to discus keeping. I have read lots but I thought I would make a post to get additional advice. I am a month and a half into housing 10 3" Stendker discus and I have ran into a bit of trouble.

    -All of this fish are eating a balanced beef heart mix 3x daily.
    -In a bare bottom 100 gallon tank kept at 85-86F, with some Anubius/Java fern attached to some lava rock, with aeration throughout.
    -40-50% water changes done daily with aged, heated, aerated water treated with prime.
    -Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate all reading 0.
    -PH holds at around 8.

    Attached (hopefully correctly...) are a couple photos of what my supplier has told me is "Lateral Line Effusion" that was noticed on 5 of my 10 fish just over a week ago. This is the first I have heard of liner line effusion or disease? I was reading a previous thread on here where they where talking about linear line being some what linked to HTH (this may be incorrect just thought it was interesting).

    As far as treatment the supplier has suggested using Replenish from Seachem, and Vitachem-Fresh to aid in any missing vitamins and minerals (started September 18th). Along with Metroplex from Seachem (started September 16th) for any bacterial aspect of things.

    Fish are all eating normally and growing at a good rate. The ones showing symptoms are occasionally trying to scratch their face by rubbing on the filter intakes along with shaking their heads aggressively at times.

    Just wondering people’s thoughts on what I am doing as it seems to be hard to tell what is right and wrong. I just want to do my best to get these guys better.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Looks like early Hole In the Head/Lateral Line disease to me. Lateral Line Effusion is just another name for it.
    It's commonly seen with overcrowding, over feeding and infrequent water changes, but your set up seems to be acceptable. There are also theories linking it to vitamin or mineral deficiencies, stress, and Hexamita infections. That's why you supplier made the suggestions he did.
    If you Google Hole in the Head disease or do a search on this forum, you could spend hours researching it.

    It may respond to the Metroplex and vitamins and minerals you're using. But it may not. It's a frustrating disease to treat.

    The only other thing I might recommend, if you can manage it, is larger daily water changes. Up to 75-80%. Plus, I would only feed beef heart twice daily and siphon out any uneaten food within a few minutes. Uneaten beef heart pollutes the water column pretty fast. Try getting them on a high quality flake or pellet food to replace some to the beef heart feedings. Flake and pellet diets are a lot cleaner.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Spironucleus disease in the intestinal will travel to the liver, heart, head and brain. What you have is an internal disease with external signs
    (HITH).
    Better water quality, waterchanges and maintenance is a way to control outbreaks. Also metronidazole treatment will help.

    Cliff
    Last edited by CliffsDiscus; 09-23-2021 at 02:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ok thank you for the feedback.

    I thought my water quality has been on point but maybe I will try larger water changes and mix in some pellet food for the evening feedings.

    Glad to hear I'm doing what I should be as far as treatment.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ethan, several additional considerations. One well accepted theory is that Hex is ubiquitous in Discus and only becomes symptomatic on the basis of stress, poor water, poor nutrition due to overgrowth of
    the parasite. You are improving both water and nutrition although you might want to vary the diet somewhat more, there are several excellent threads on discus nutrition in this forum.

    If at all possible, establish a smaller hospital tank and place the 5 affected fish in that tank for treatment. Smaller tank means less medication required and since you want to do large daily water changes,
    that is easier.

    Hex does not like high heat, would raise water temp to 90. Cannot do that in the DT if you want the plants to survive.

    Metro is better if you can get the fish to eat it, so medicated food, either commercially prepared or by your adding to food is better than only in the water.

    Several articles I have read indicate that the addition of epsom salt with Metro enhances clearance of Hex.
    Good luck

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Thanks for the additional advice.
    I should of mentioned that I have been treating the food as well as the water with the metro.

    I have a 30 gallon I'll set up and look at treating them separately. But is it not beneficial to treat the whole tank for those not showing symptoms that may start to?

    As far as food goes I have tried discus bio gold with no luck in them eating it. I'll buy a couple more foods and see how they do. I'll look into some other threads on how to get them interested in new food.

    Thanks again

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ethan, weather to treat your display tank is always situational based on the particular pathogen. The most common opinion from my reading about Hex is that you can suppress numbers with treatment allowing the fish (sometimes) to recover but eradication is unlikely, the key to control long term is some combination better water, nutrition, stress reduction. Given that other literature sources indicate that the parasite cannot survive at all above 90 degrees I am unsure what is correct and cannot find any literature proving or disproving that. Seems that most would only treat the symptomatic in a HT, but in fairness not sure about that.

    If it were me, I would remove the plants, drop the volume of the DT to about 50 gal then treat the DT with metro both food and water, add Epsom Salt and cook the hex at 90-92. Change about 75% water daily and replace with metro and ES, treat the plants with PP dip and put them in the 30 till done with the DT. Also I really like UV sterilizers, buy a big one, you are trying to sterilize, not clarify. Having said all that I tend to like the nuclear option so I would try and hammer this so as not to see it again.

    As far as new food, seems the best way is to add to whichever feeding fish most hungry, usually first morning feed. Slowly increase percentage of new till they are taking or if persistently avoidant try something else.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ok I was on the fence on a uv sterilizer. Reading about low flow rates to actually be effective vs just clarifying the water. I'll look into it.
    Sorry but what does DT stand for?
    I will try and get kick this all into gear here and hopefully get things on the up and up.

    Thanks again.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    DT= display tank

    Quote Originally Posted by EthanG View Post
    Ok I was on the fence on a uv sterilizer. Reading about low flow rates to actually be effective vs just clarifying the water. I'll look into it.
    Sorry but what does DT stand for?
    I will try and get kick this all into gear here and hopefully get things on the up and up.

    Thanks again.
    Grasshopper
    Francis

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Short hand for Display Tank, HT as in hospital, QT quarantine. Lots of abbreviations used here and I have fallen into the habit.
    I used this site for both UV info and equipment, not per se endorsing other than to say I personally was very satisfied. https://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/index.html

    FWIW some folks really like UV, some others feel it is unnecessary given the amount of water changed to otherwise keep discus healthy. I have been a fan since this first came out for home use back in the late 70s. But, I cannot find any information indicating that comparing health outcomes head to head on aquariums that are otherwise identical shows a benefit to UV. Sometimes you just have to go with your "gut". My system design does not depend on low flow, rather I just bought a bigger UV unit to meet my sump flow, ~1000 gal in a 150 gallon system. Let us know how the treatment turns out.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ok, great. Thank you, I will keep you all posted.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Sorry one more question. Do you have a link or information on how much salt to add? I read one thread saying a 3% solution. For 50 gallons to make that kind of a solution would be around 5600 grams if my math is correct and that seems like a lot (maybe I'm not converting things properly).
    Thank you.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    If the fish is ill, there are applications for it to be used...some use salt by short terms dips, others use it to calm a stressed out fish, others still use it as a long term bath to treat fungus and bacteria, help restore slime coat, its a medicine though and its uses depend on the ailment, and the effectiveness and safety depends on the concentration used,with using salt in various capacities.


    Quote Originally Posted by EthanG View Post
    Sorry one more question. Do you have a link or information on how much salt to add? I read one thread saying a 3% solution. For 50 gallons to make that kind of a solution would be around 5600 grams if my math is correct and that seems like a lot (maybe I'm not converting things properly).
    Thank you.
    Grasshopper
    Francis

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    The use of Epsom Salt or MgSO4 is not required but there is some evidence that it assists with clearance of the parasite. The dosage varies between 1-3 tsp/10 gallons. Just siphon out a gallon into a bucket, add the salt (make sure it is pure MgSO4) stir until dissolved and then slowly add to the tank. Replace what you take out when you change water.
    If you are interested in the source article go to https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/handle/10919/5534 and type in hexamita in the search box and the article will show up, all 222 pages. Worth flipping through though.

    Also I quoted the correct temp as 90 degrees to actually kill hex (something I read from several sources). This article shows no direct inhibition at that temp but rather partial inhibition of growth at 34 C, too hot for me to try. Would keep at 88 to 90 to promote faster metabolism, more appetite/intake of medicated food, and with MgSO4 on board decreased gut transit time and increased mechanical clearance of the parasite. Make sure you are aerating the tank well at this higher temp.

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    Default Re: Linear Line Effussion?

    Ok thank you again. I'll give this all a go and keep you all posted.

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