ANYONE Share: Raising 2.5-3.5" to +6" fails & success

[pastry]

D'bunk... brother... I'd pass you a few fireball shots to shoot & chill with me. And I need to teach you how to knock on wood -- because if I said I never had a discus die on me then all of mine would die that day.

I was checking on past experiences and eager to watch your current thread with that beautiful group of juvies grow that you have. Look, if you show us your success as you grow them, it'll be awesome & most of us will be jealous yet cheer for you (the better you document, the less nay sayers... but there will always be skeptics with all the proof in the world). If it fails, we'll still be here for you (at least I will...). So try to stop going for the throat and just show us. 10 years ago I swear there was a "hit squad" here. There's still those who'll oppose any who go against the grain, but that's healthy... keeps it balanced. On the other side, if we don't have those who go against the grain... we either learn nothing or don't have current lessons learned (I think I'm VIP in the "lessons learned" group, unfortunately).

[nah]

I'm willing to bet around 98% of us have had juvies at 2.5-3.5" (whether homegrown or purchased). There are endless individual SD members who've already made threads on past groups they've had. But there's no concentrated thread on successes and (believe it or not) more importantly, failures.

I'll go first: my teeth were kicked in pretty good when I first got the courage to post on here. It started with my original "Growing in planted 150 gallon" thread. That thread lasted about 3 or so years and several groups. I had a number of fish reach beyond 6" but overall the average was 5.5" (huge difference in my book between 5.5 & 6).

I LOVED it... but ask me,"... if based on size & development would I say those fish were a success?" ...Nope.

I'll update this thread later with a link to that thread since it has the details but I'm encouraging others to either (1) brag with quick bullets (and links to past details within old threads if applicable) or (2) post experiences of growing that came up short.

MY BET: I might get 2 to 4 folks to post and that's it. Hoping for at least 20 experiences... not replies to others honest assessments... but posts on experiences. Lately, I'm willing to bet 20 is unachievable. Too many SD members are scared to post their experiences... therefore, nobody freak'n learns. "But BB, daily 100% WC with high protein diet has been said over & over & over &..."... yep, but fancy me & post. Even if you had successes regularly, tell us your early on failures when you thought you were immune.

Alright, time for another fireball and then switching to cab.

I received today four F-1 wild Peruvian Green discus. Size is about 50cents. Minutes after introducing to the tank there were eating Al's freeze dry black worms and TetraColor pellets. I would try a mixture of foods and observe which tye prefer.

[pastry]

It'll eventually clear up. Did you find it or buy it? I go out and find mine. TOTALLY love collecting my own... I'm surprised I've only had 2 bad pieces I shouldn't have put in but nothing devastating.

Can't wait to see latest on the blue squad!!!!!!!

[smsimcik]

@ smsimcik

It took Jack Wattley almost 10 years to produce the first Turquoise Discus. That was nearly 40 years after discus first appeared in the U.S.

So you think if somebody spent 10 years they could eventually develop a line of healthy, fertile dwarf discus?

[bluelagoon]

@ bluelagoon

I assume you are talking about people who are breeding discus and/or raising them from fry. I've never owned discus smaller than 2.5" so I can't comment on raising fry. So my experience is with growing juveniles into adulthood.

I have NEVER made water changes more often than once-a-week. I currently change 50% of the water bi-weekly. I have never had a sick discus (excluding one which had epilepsy). And just to be clear, epilepsy is not a communicable disease, it's genetic.

I don't know why people seem to have so much trouble caring for discus. In my experience they are just as hardy as most any other tropical fish. I've had otocinclus die on me. I've had two different species of catfish die on me. I've never had a discus die on me.

I suspect there are several reasons other people seem to run into problems. Number one, buying poor quality fish at the outset. Number two, overfeeding. You mention bacteria count. There's nothing like decaying excess food to raise bacteria count. Number three, poor filtration. The latter two are the reasons people resort to frequent water changes.

As far as I can tell, most people use "high end" filter media of various types: sintered glass, ceramic rings, lava rock, matrix, etc. etc. Those are all poor media for biofiltration. I use 25ppi foam media exclusively. In the old days, I used undergravel filters. Both of these offer far superior biofiltration.

How long have you been keeping discus? How long has the oldest one lived? Sometimes it takes months or even a year before they succumb to unfavorable conditions.

[Iminit]

Ok D’bunk you’ve got some good points. I too don’t follow the pack and have grown out my first tank of new discus in a planted 125. Elliot they were bought at the 2.5 size. They’ve grown into 4-7” discus. Lost 2 along the way. One couldn’t seem to digest beefheart (I tried it late in the game they were 4” than). The other was a red cover that I bought at 5” to match the ones I had growing. It just up and died about 2 yrs in. But I tried again with a new 125 and growing out this second group in smaller tanks with much more water changes. These all seem to be around 5-6” fish. Which are fine for me. But I’m happy with all.
D’bunk sorry in your first thread it just seemed like what I’ve read on many forums. Somebody just trolling and stating he’s done everything the wrong way with great results. Hopefully that’s not what your doing. I read many threads not just discus threads like that and they get annoying. On Facebook it’s a daily occurrence. They brag how great there fish are for a month or so than just disappear. Next you get many newbies with problems saying they read that they didn’t need water changes on the site why are their fish dying? What works for one may not work for others. But good luck!!

Oh and Elliot just wasn’t game for that speedo thread .

[pastry]

What do you mean I wasn't game for that thread? I totally came through! LOL

I'm just very curious if Dbunk has the type of water I've mentioned before... when 2 different people I knew had water that grew everything night *** hell yet hardly ever changed water. If I hadn't seen that (twice now... and I was helping each of them set up tanks so when I would pop in and see see how their tanks were doing after hearing that they weren't changing the water, I was furiously jealous TC fish & plants in their tanks humongous). Those people had well water... but although Dbunk says he's using tap, it's not U.S. tap parameters (so that could be in his benefit). Only time & posts will tell. He is adamant and that mirrors what the two people in the past have been. Because they never had to deal with the pain of constant water changes and water conditioning. One of those places I still have access to and I wish I knew how to dissect water because I am sure there's stuff in that water that over the counter test kits can't account for.

[Second Hand Pat]

No one mentioned fry below 2.5 inches so here goes. F2s at nine weeks old. These guys do not grow as fast as domestics.

[seanyuki]

Those fry looking good ��

[bluelagoon]

Just another note on nitrates. Most literature says up to 40 ppm nitrates will be ok for fish. Whereas 80 ppm becomes toxic. Stendler is in the business of fish, the more they sell the more money. I don't know where they came up with numbers like that but it is poison at those levels. By the time it reaches those levels, your tank has old tank syndrome.

[Iminit]

I’ve never bought into the nitrate thing. Been many study’s on nitrate with results up to 200ppm and no problem with fish. Thing is people have major problems when told their nitrate is way to high they need to change massive amounts of water. This in turn kills the fish. Thus blamed on high nitrates not the fact that the drastic change in water shocked them to death. If the water is changed out slowly there would have been no problem. For years there wasn’t even a nitrate test in the api kits. Kind of funny the nitrate test appeared around the same time matrix appeared. Than as we all know a great salesman promoted his amazing product that produces nitrate eating bacteria that will remove those nasty nitrates. Yes bio-home media. Come on all of you are using it! I admit I’ve got about 5lbs of it( Hey it’s still a media). But in reality to grow this bacteria you need total darkness and very little oxygen. So once you clean your canister filter (only place it will grow) you kill off most of it and than it takes months to regrow. All grown just in time for a cleaning. On another forum a guy did a year long study. Yes within 6 months his nitrate did start to reduce. This tank had a dedicated canister with a prefilter sponge. It was never opened. After the 6 months and peaking the nitrates started returning.

[Second Hand Pat]

They're so damn cute.

I have a question for all of those that intentionally breed discus: What are you doing with all of them once they grow out? Even if I was so inclined, I wouldn't go to the trouble because I don't know what I'd do with the offspring.

No worries, this is plenty of demand for these guys
Pat

[CliffsDiscus]

No one mentioned fry below 2.5 inches so here goes. F2s at nine weeks old. These guys do not grow as fast as domestics.

Pat, congrats nice batch of fry.

Cliff

[pastry]

Tom, that just may have answered why my sucky canister cleaning regime in the past would (at a point in time for a long duration) do "wonders" (although I was thinking at the time, "this is awesome... but I feel like I'm going to pay for this )

Pat, any left over from the early May batch? If so, how are y doing?

[Iminit]

Yes Elliot I did the same back in the late 80s early 90s. But my canister was just full of sponge. Had it running with a wet/dry filter and the water was probably the cleanest water. I used to drink it to prove how clean it was. Not sure I’m no scientist but I believed that the oxygen rich bacteria in the wet/dry and the oxygen starved bacteria in the canister created a great balance in that tank. It was a 200g fully planted discus tank with 14 discus and about 10-15 dither fish.