Second discus to stop eating

[CheeseheadNV]

Hi all,

Glad to find this forum. I've had freshwater tanks for decades but am new to keeping discus. I'm looking for advice on a sick fish.

1. Problem:I bought 5 juvenile red marlboro discus (1-1.5 inches) from a local breeder in early October (now know I should have set myself up for better success w larger fish). All were doing fine and no unusual changes. Suddenly one stopped eating, started hiding in back of tank away from other fish, and died a week ago. No outward signs of illness besides looking a bit thin. No white thread hanging from it. Just the behavior change and then it died. Three days ago, another discus stopped eating and started hanging out in the back. The other 3 seem fine. Today, the sick discus is resting on the bottom.


2. Symptoms: Not eating, hiding. No other outward signs of a problem.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
None. Not sure what do. Tried water change and increasing temp slightly...no change.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
65 gallon tank (36x18x25).
7 millenium rainbows (~2 inches)
5 serpae tetra (~1/2 inch)
4 marlboro discus (1-1.5 inch)
Rainbows and serpaes were established months before adding discus in October.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Weekly 25%. Vacuum gravel every other time.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank been running for 5+ years, maybe longer. Substrate is gravel, about 1-1.5 inches deep. (Now I've read that bare bottom is better. Not sure if I should remove gravel or if that's not the problem and might cause more disturbance and stress).

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
API Water conditioner added directly to tank when new water added. 10-15mL.

9. Parameters and water source;


- temp 82, just raised to 83
- ph 7.6-7.8
- ammonia reading 0
- nitrite reading 0
- nitrate reading 5ppm (maybe a little less)
- municipal water

10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. - None


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Feed once daily. Most often a recommended flake mixture from local aquarium store (can't remember the mixture but kept in fridge, think it had beef hearts as one ingredient). Sera discus granules 1-2 times a week. Frozen bloodworms once every week or two.

Let me know if you have any advice. Water parameters seems good but the fact that one discus died and another looks like it might be next...I need to figure out something.

Thanks!
-Nicole

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Nicole,

My initial guess is you are not changing enough water. Raising discus in a community tank is not the best for the discus. Are there plants in the tank? Also look closely as the discus and see if they have pits around the head. Note there are normal pits on mouth area. Can you post pictures? My initial thoughts are lack of minerals in the water can cause hole in the head. Also what does the poop look like? Normal is nice and dark. White poop is an issue.

Pat

[Phil4Discus]

Juvies should be eating a lot more times than once a day, like 5 times per day. They are in a grow out stage, which is best suited in bare bottom tanks with high percentage and frequent water changes, like 50%+ daily. Having them trying to compete for the food with rainbows and tetras probably isn't helping either.

They are just not set up for success. It's okay though, we've all learned over time. Read some of the beginner threads in this forum and you'll be set up better for the future. Sorry you are going through this!

[CheeseheadNV]

No live plants. I didn’t realize how hard it is to get a picture of a discus hiding in the bottom back of the tank. It also makes it hard to see its head closely. Is there a way to check about minerals? I don’t recall poop color for any of the discus. I’ll try to attach a pic of the sick one and also the others in case you can see something. Any advice on what to do immediately? Or wait for clearer diagnosis? I feel bad I have them set up so poorly for success. I don’t have another established empty tank to put them in.

[CheeseheadNV]

See if you can see images at this link:
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0Q5qXGF1QUxRR

[CheeseheadNV]

Thanks. I thought I did enough research but mistakenly thought juveniles were a good idea—less expense in case I made mistakes and lost one or two. That’s turning out to be true…but now I feel terrible that I set them up so poorly for success. Now that I’ve read more great info in the beginner forum, I’m not sure what my next best step is. I have a completely empty (no water) 10 gallon tank I could set up (though worried no beneficial bacteria are established). I could try to return the juveniles to the fish store while I regroup. Or I could try to help them in my 65 gal (ideas:more water changes, try to remove gravel, insert tank divider tank to help w competition from rainbows (though they’d still share same water). Happy to consider any good advice.

[Phil4Discus]

Hey, it's okay. I've been there personally with my first discus purchase. I bought 10 or 12 juvies from a poor source and had them in a 29 gallon bare bottom tank. Was doing 90% daily water changes and multiple feedings at a time. Still lost some and got worried about the space in the tank that I eventually put them in a 75 gallon dirted planted aquarium (only other tank I had) thinking this may help them "live" let alone grow. I continued the feedings and only did 50% water changes every other day. Soon enough, one by one, they died. Whirling around (though not sure it was "whirling disease"), while others stopped eating and went dark. It's just one of those things where I didn't know what it all took to grow juvies and help them be successful.

So let me tell you what I did after that experience. I bought another 29 gallon tank (actually more but that's a side story), built my own stand and started to get those tanks cycled. I rescaped one of my 75 gallon tanks better that would allow the discus to do well. When the time came, I bought some adult wild browns from my local fish store. Had 3 in each 29 gallon tank and allowed them a couple weeks to get used to me, my water, and my regimen. Later I added them to the 75 gallon tank and you can see them in my homesteader page. Which I should probably post some updates to. haha

After that tank, I pursued the original challenge of the planted, carpeted discus tank. This time with 10 adult discus and a 125 gallon tank that I traded for from the original 75 gallon tank from the juvies. I had some very nice fish of different domestic strains from a couple good sources on Simply Discus. It also was a challenge and I did lose a couple, but over time it became a very pretty, and healthy discus tank. For both tanks, I enjoyed them for the last few years and was heartbroken when I lost all my fish in the garage, and a few inside my home, when the entire Texas area power grid was effected last year. I didn't have a generator at the time and I was without power in freezing temps for 3, almost 4 days. Local authorities told us we'd have rolling blackouts and everything would be okay. That didn't happen. By the time I got a generator, it was too late for most. I still have 3 of my original brown wilds and I still have a couple altums, but I lost a lot of fish that day.

Another lesson learned. I have a generator now, and a backup. And gas cans, lots of gas cans.

We all go through a journey while we love our pets. Best thing we can do is move forward and keep learning and do the best we can.

So, just me putting myself in your shoes, I'd try to see if there was a way to return them to the store. Then I would put a plan in place to make my tank ready for discus. If there isn't a way to return them, I'd continue feeding multiple times a day, with large water changes and thorough siphoning of the gravel substrate.

Hope this helps.

Phil