I'm having a very difficult time in treating flukes.

[lemont23]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
First off I would like to say that these, fish mean the world to me. They are my fathers which unfortunately passed away a few years ago. He for some reason was obsessed with fish even though he jumped straight to discus without much experience, he loved them. I tried my best to keep them healthy. I mean I've read more about discus than I've read about anything else in my life + observing them for countless of hours and the information I've found is incredibly mixed and not that specific. I had problems with them at first when all I heard from fish shop owners was "you only have to change the water once a week" and then they recommend all of the frozen foods and never mention vacuuming any leftover foods etc. which to you might sound obvious but not for complete beginners and so I lost a couple of fish which were rather small and would need much more maintenance, that I know now.

This is also why I'm having trouble now. I bought new fish had them quarantined and used prazi. A couple of months later I've noticed a drastic increase in breathing and scratching of the gills, specifically at night time when all lights are off. I've tried a month treatment of prazi and it seemed to work when it was in the water, but continued anyway until one of my fish gills started looking very bad, sticking out. It seemed that it really messed with it's breathing and it died a couple of months later. To add, this was the most dominant fish in my tank, the most healthy it seemed.
One thing that also happened was that the stopped breeding and fighting, there was 2 pairs in my tank that would always lay eggs now for a while no action that I could see.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Fast breathing, scratching of the gills, discoloration near the gills/belly which wouldn't get better despite pristine water conditions, clamped fins(one fin), transparent "gills?" sticking out, (real gill tissue for the blue diamond), getting spooked more easily.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Praziquantel, I did the whole month treatment. Tried levamisole also after which others seemed better, but my blue diamond died.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

110gal. 5 now. 2 are 3 years, 7inch at least and 6inch. 1 is 1.5 years - 6inch. 2 new ones are 5 inch and less then a year. I've never took them out and measured them but this I think is still really close.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

mostly every other day, sometimes everyday 50-80%

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

3years, it wasn't bare bottom but it is now.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

I don't there is barely any change in ph.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

none

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __86f___

- ph __8___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __1-5__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __+__

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

no

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

stendker beefheart mix now, sometimes frozen blood worms.

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
https://imgur.com/a/ADLR3W3 this was before removing the gravel and about the time it all started, they still all look good, but with the transparent stuff sticking out of the gills which is hard to capture since it doesn't look that bad.
I'm also unable to get the other meds for flukes like flubendazole or fenbendazole since it's illegal to sell them here and could not find anyone who would send them here, which is Lithuania, levamisole too.
The options I have in the lfs for worm stuff are
diflubenzuron, benzimidazole (I could hardly find info on these), levamisole (I could get some), or fenbendazole with 2 other meds mixed in used for dogs( can't say what at this moment though.)

[jeep]

Do you have access to formalin? Potassium Permanganate? These are very effective against flukes. Formalin can delete oxygen so add extra air. PP is an oxidizer and can be tricky or even dangerous so make sure you read up on its use. Both can damage bio filtration.

If an infection is present and the filaments are protruding then they could have bacterial gill disease. Advanced BGD is not curable but salt at 3 TBS per 10g can help ease their breathing and reduce inflammation.

Here's an interesting old article written by Cary Strong I saved. that you might find interesting...

Eradication of External Protozoa

1. Transfer all fish to one tank (tank may be overstocked).
2. Empty all water out of other tank.
3. Sanitize tank as follows:
- Spray inside of tank down w/ rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl alcohol)
- Boil driftwood and rubber for 20 minutes
- Soak sponges and put in microwave for 2 minutes
- Soak everything else (canister filters, plastic, air hoses, etc.) in a mix of clorox and water
4. Refill tank and run a fishless cycle on this tank. Be sure to do 90% waterchange before fish are introduced.
5. Once tank is cycle, run treatment on fish
- Set up four buckets, each at about 84 degrees and with an airstone
- The 1st bucket should have 2 tbs. per gallon of non-iodized salt. The fish should be in this bucket for 6 minutes.
- Remove fish and dip in 4th bucket with clean water
- The 2nd bucket should have methylene blue at 4 drops per gallon. The fish should be in this bucket for 15 min.
- Remove fish and dip in 4th bucket with clean water.
- The 3rd bucket should have 1 ml per gallon formaldehyde 37%. This dip will last for 15-20 min. This is very important. The fish will act normal for the first bit, then they will come up to the top of the water and gasp for air. DO NOT remove them yet, wait until they start to fall to the bottom or when the time runs out. THEY WILL LOOK LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO DIE, BUT THEY WON'T.
- Pull them out and dip them in the 4th bucket, and put them into the fresh tank. This tank should be at 84 degrees - no higher - and have 1-2 tbs. per 10 gallons of non-iodized salt. They will probably lay on the bottom on their sides for the first day or so. They won't die, don't worry. Don't feed for the first day or so, wait until they are swimming around.
6. Break down and sterilize the tank they came out of
7. Run a fishless cycle on this tank
8. After it's cycled and the 90% waterchange is done, you can move the fish you want back into the other tank.

This will eliminate the external bacteria/parasites/protazoans and clean your fish. This is the most assured and complete method to do so.

[lemont23]

Is BGD something that happens with flukes? Besides other symptoms I came to the conclusion that it's flukes since the breathing slowed down considerably after a few hours of prazi. I can definitely get pp, but I avoided it as it is dangerous like you mentioned. I've found formaldehyde 35-38% and could order it. What would you suggest though? If I do pp do I follow all of these steps? I've read it's extremely important to get the dose of pp right, what about formalin?

[jeep]

Gill disease can happen for several reasons, flukes, dirty water, high bio-load... I think the best method of treating is with PP.

Here's a good article on how to treat http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...te-(PP)-How-To

[lemont23]

There is PP powder used to make a solution for the skin in my pharmacy, so I'll get that if it's fine. So as long as I dose correctly and do it no more than 4 hours it's safe? Will it kill the eggs as well?
I also have tank with clown loaches which were once in the same tank as discus and I suspect they might have it too. I can't find any info of using PP with clowns, do you think 2mg/l is safe to use with them? Or should I go with 1mg/l?

[lemont23]

Anyway, thanks. You have been very helpful.

[jeep]

I have no experience using PP, but I believe if you follow the instructions in that link you should be fine. I'm not aware that one type of fish is more sensitive than another.

Please be cautious and have some hydrogen peroxide on hand to neutralize the PP if necessary. This should be easy to find in any grocery store or pharmacy.

Also, remember it can damage your bio filtration so be prepared to increase your water changes until filtration catches back up..

[lemont23]

Yeah, I have everything now and I'll start today.
Thanks!

[lemont23]

Worked wonderfully, the breathing is at least 2 times slower now.

[jeep]

Great news. Just be aware that this usually produces fast results but they can regress. I would keep up with large water changes and add 3 TBS salt per 10g for at least 14 days.