1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Long story,
I've posted before about this group of discus that I acquired about 8 months ago. All of them were in very rough shape and from reseller that was hit buy a flood so it was kind of a recue situation. I literally got 9 discus in a bucket (the guy had to walk them out to me because the cops wouldn't let me into the flooded part of town)
I got them home and started treating.
there where two wilds one is still alive and doing good they all had some form of wasting. but I hit them with metro first and it seamed to help. the one 8 inch wild blue died after worming hid stomach went white and he passed away soon after. necropsy showed tons of parasites to many to name.
of the remaining 8 fish one was very thin like a razor tail sag and red gills those symptoms never improved. He eventually passed away. then a red malbaro started to show the signs that the razor thin one had. he was separated and treated with doxy it improved him so then put it back in to gen pop after 4 months of isolation. Hes doing good. AAAND Now that leads me to my white butterfly showing the exact same symptoms. I have done fecal exams I have treated with metro 3 times I have used flubenz and prazi. the only thing that ever got this into remission was a strong dose of anti biotics.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Not Eating, Eventual Tail Sag, Minor Fin Rot, Red Gills. SKINNNY
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Flubenzadole. Metroplex. Prazipro
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
90 gal display 7 discus 4-8inch
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
2x a week 50%
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
2 years bare bottom
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
not aged just treated with prime tap water. we have a ph of 6.5 out of the tap low chlorine and very soft water ph swing is nil
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime to tank. water is sprayed in to allow for off gas.
9. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp ___82__
- ph ____7_
- ammonia reading ___0_
- nitrite reading __0__
- nitrate reading __5__
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water ____
- municipal water __100__
- RO water ____
10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Austrailian Black worms and Freeze dried bison
12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Those discus have been through a lot. Hopefully you can turn them around.
First off, I would raise the temp to 93 and add 2-3TBS salt per 10g. This may help stimulate appetite. They are pretty weak at this point so I would do this slowly over 5 days and observe them for stress. May turn it up to 88 for a couple of days the up it. Give them time to adjust if they seem distressed.
Are they eating at all?
You said one that died had parasites. Do you know which parasite? Capillaria and roundworms are common in these cases. Can you confirm with a microscope?
How long since the last treatment? Do you have access to Levamisole? It's much easier on the internal organs. Flubendazole can cause tail standing.
I would increase water changes. Since you don't age your water, I would reduce to 40% volume and increase to every other day. If possible, age and temp match the water.
With the parasites, meds and the stress they've been through, they may be suffering from organ damage but I wouldn't give up yet.
Another appetite stimulant would be live blackworms.
In many cases, high heat and a mild dose of salt can turn them around but it's most effective in early cases.
A microscopic exam of feces is best to determine if needed, but since they aren't eating it's a shot in the dark. If you choose to use Levamisole, the treatment as a 24 hour bath, is lights off. Then a 50% water change and wipe every surface of the tank so no eggs are left behind. One week later, repeat. 1-2 weeks later, repeat.
In any case, I would try the heat for 10-14 days first.
I have levamisole. Will it work for Protoopalina?
fyi the proto pics aren't from the sick fish they are from another tank all together. I just did a fecal on my breeding pair out of curiosity.
I have been out of town and my wife had to do water changes. and now the pair has white poop. Possible the metro didn't fix this bug and now its in my other tanks too.
joy.
Anyhow I have lots of levamisole if you think it will work on this bug ill run it on all the tanks.
my biggest fear was that I had a bacterial TB outbreak and would have to cull everything and start from scratch, but maybe its just a metro resistant flagella.
just did a quick test on metro(api general cure)
pic is of the Protoopalina after adding a drop of dissolved metro onto the slide of Protoopalina. right side is dyeing/dead proto on left is still alive. death.jpg
I consulted with Tammy K and she agrees on the metro. I would include the high heat treatment. Both for 10-14 days.
Keep in mind that these discus have been sick for quite some time. If this treatment is successful, you may not see improvement for another week or so...
All I have left API general cure, but lots of it. I'll be feeding black worms soaked with general cure and garlic guard for 5 days for all that are eating. and maybe hitting the water column a couple times in the tanks that I'm feeding too just to kill any thing in the tanks.. the white butterfly is the only one not eating he' in isolation. I will hit his water with general cure salt and Doxycycline and raise his temp. doing daily 75% water changes. Should I still Be possibly concerned about some form of bacterial infection? or are we just thinking its just a flaglets tats been dodging full annihilation?
Turned up heat, no salt. as I have a few plants. ran the treatment for 15 days 10 days at the higher temp. lost one that was in q t. didn't get to him in time to do a proper necropsy.
still noticing no improvement in the other fish. Patient zero has been treated 3 times now with metro and didn't like the third time so much. so I made the hard choice to get to the bottom of this and euthanized him as he was getting worse. (constantly sick and ill, fin rot and thin. probably to week to recovery and possibly just a host for all the parasites that can survive.) I will atach the photos in new thread, but basically I still found lots of the Protoopalina still in his gut. organs where just destroyed lots of clotting in liver and just a mess on the inside basically. didn't notice any cysts hopping to rule out any major bacterial infection. like TB.
Discus Wasting disease?
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