Alternatives to Aging Water?

[jwcarlson]

My tap water goes from 7.2 to 8.3 pH with aging. I am currently set up to do 90% WC in my discus tank nightly, but I recently purchased some additional tanks and am considering getting some more discus at some point.

Wondering if there are alternatives to causing this off-gassing of CO2 (at least, I think that's what is happening here) to occur more "on demand"? Not sure I want to have 3-4 aging barrels and don't think I can fit a big tote in somehow.

Just wondering if there's some filter or something that I'm ignorant of!

Thanks!

[LizStreithorst]

Nothing that I know of. 90% is a huge WC. I generally do 30 to 50% daily. With that large a swing you really do need to age.

[jwcarlson]

Nothing that I know of. 90% is a huge WC. I generally do 30 to 50% daily. With that large a swing you really do need to age.

From an actual time spent standpoint it doesn't much matter if I do a 10% or 90% water change as most time is draining and filling (and then re-filling the barrel). It's just the whole aging barrel leaving about an inch of water in the 75 the discus are in. I don't have an automatic system, but I use pumps, timers, and valves so that I just have to flip a few valves and punch a couple buttons and I'm free to do other chores or whatever. I suppose if I had more than one discus tank, I could split the water changes either smaller percentages daily or more likely, I would cut back on the older discus and change more in anything I would be growing out. I'm mainly just wondering if there's any shortcutting. I figured that there is not because I haven't heard anything mentioned anywhere. But was just wondering if there's some membrane or something that would help force the gas out.

I have a small RO system that I bought before I got discus and it's still in the box. I have no plans on using it unless I decide I want to try breeding them, but that's nothing I am directly planning. But I could see that being something I'm interested in at some point. So as a side-question... if I were make RO from my water, would it still need to be aged? Or does RO remove CO2?

[LizStreithorst]

According to my understanding the RO has to be aged as well.

[mleibowi]

I don’t and siphoning takes some time. I just do 50-69% water changes every 2-3 days

[LizStreithorst]

I bet your pH swing is quite small.

[bluelagoon]

I've heard of some folks using a shower head or sponge to get the air bubbles/gas from the water. But you can't beat aged water when doing large WC's. It brings it to a better equilibrium when exposed to air. Especially, your water. What might be ok for some folks can be detrimental to others. PH swings can stress discus over time; best for chemical changes to happen during aging (for large WC's).

[jwcarlson]

To be clear, I am not planning on NOT bringing my pH to stable level before water changes. I'm simply looking for an alternative (more expedient) way of doing just that.

In short... a way to change water straight from my tap AND avoid pH swing. I think the means with which to do that from a temperature standpoint aren't particularly difficult to figure out, but the pH side of things is difficult.

I found some interesting filters that 3M makes specifically for decarbonization/degassing that I'm digging into. For anyone interested: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/liquicel-us/
I contacted their technical support, so will see what they say. At the very least I'd like to buy one and give it a shot.

It's basically a little exchanger that gives a massive increase in surface area that allows of the off gassing to happen more quickly, can even put gas through it on the exchange side (just air in this particular case). I'm curious to know how long one of these would function and what would cause flow to drastically decrease and require the changing of filter cartridge. I don't mind aging for my current setup, and I actually age and preheat for all my tanks anyway. I don't currently have a bypass for hot water around my water softener, so I don't have much of a choice anyway unless I use softened water. Which I used to do 20 years ago for my oscars and they didn't seem to mind. But I wasn't changing large amounts of water daily either.

[LizStreithorst]

I never knew that such a cool thing even existed. Please let us know what what tech support tells you. It would be great if is actually works as you hope.

[jwcarlson]

I will follow up, I'm an engineer (though electrical) and so sometimes things I just can't believe something like this doesn't exist, though strangely little information about its availability.
There are also degassing towers, but i don't know how quickly that method would work.

Mainly curious about cost... These could be $2k a piece for all I know!

[Vanman]

Probably more than 2K.

[jwcarlson]

Maybe... But they're not a particularly complicated item, I don't think. I'm very curious to see what 3M says, they forwarded me on to a chemical engineer.
Will keep everyone posted.

[jeep]

I've never had an issue doing 25% water changes straight from tap in winter and up to 40% in summer when the co2 content is lower. It may not sound significant, but I'm limited on space as well and the extra 25% from tap helps me complete my regular water changes without adding additional time or space for aging.

I drain all tanks then fill then patially fill them. Once they are are all filled to the 75% line, I pump warm water into the holding tanks and continue filling the tanks as normal. The change in ph is nominal...

[jwcarlson]

Part of my issue with doing that, Brian, is that I do not have a hot water bypass ability around my water softener. And I don't want to use that water... though, that might be an irrational fear.

How much does your pH shift with aging vs tap, Brian?

[jeep]

I didn't realize you have a softener. I wouldn't want to use it either.

I don't measure my ph anymore, but when I did it was in reverse. My water comes in around 8.9+ and ages to 8.2. Discus handle a rise better than a fall so I don't have ph issues.

Another idea is to use storage tanks like Ping uses. They are tall verticle tanks instead of the regular 55g's that I use. I will be adding them during my upcoming remodel so I can save on space and conceal everything. If you search through some of his fishroom photo's you'll see them.