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Thread: High Ammonia, need advice.

  1. #1
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    Jose Catala

    Default High Ammonia, need advice.

    Hi Y'all,

    I need some help. I have a 125 Gallon tank. Not planted, but does have sand and some plastic plants, rocks, and drift wood. For about the last 2 months, I've been getting an ammonia reading from .25-4.00 using API ammonia test kit. As of this email, I just completed a 25% water change and my parameters are:

    PH 6.6-6.8
    Nitrites 0.00
    Nitrates 0.00
    GH 75ppm
    KH between 0-40 ppm

    Temp: 80.6 (not a discus tank)
    Ammonia 1.0

    Stocking:
    2 large sevrums
    11 electric blue Acaras - Largest is 5 inches, but most are below 4
    4 rainbow fish
    1 Siamese algae eater. ..
    2 small bristlenose plecos
    1 Angelfish

    I'm running 2 Eheim 2217 canisters and 1 Tidal 70 HOB.

    typically, I do a 25% weekly water change. I use RODI water and remineralize with Seachem equilibrium, acid and alkaline buffers.

    When this I first notice an issue and tested my water, I started with doing a water change every 2 or 3 days and adding Prime after each WC. But my test results continue to remain the same. I think its obvious that I lost my BB colony in all my filters. But it doesn’t seem to be reestablishing.

    I’ve also, tried stability + prime after every WC. No luck. 11 days ago, I started with 50% water changes with alternating prime and Stability. In addition, I’ve been aggressively vacuuming up the sand to make sure I’m getting any un eaten food, etc… ( This water and tank look crystal clear ).

    My issue is that I can’t pinpoint the reason why total ammonia hasn’t gone down. If I understand correctly, prime with convert Nh3 to Nh4 and this might be why I’m still seeing some ammonia in my testing. Am I right on this?

    Is there anything else I should be trying? I was thinking for replacing the bio media in one of the canisters to Matrix and adding Purigen. Purigen to absorb any decomposing organics to keep it from becoming ammonia.

    Givens: I did use the same exact test kit on a couple of other tanks and it came back with 0 ammonia
    I did test the water coming out of the RO just in case, and same results.

    I know this is a long post, So thank you for reading and any input you may have.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Don Speers

    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Jose,
    Obviously your tank isn't cycled, and has not made any progress for the last 2 months. This suggests 2 problems: what killed the bacteria in the first place and what is supressing regrowth for the last 8 weeks. This presumes that your nitrite and nitrate tests are working as well as your TAN test which you confirmed. Nitrite is hard to confirm unless you have a reference solution but you can confirm your nitrate values by testing your other tanks. If they all read 0 time for a new test.

    How many tanks are you running?
    Did you possibly forget to turn the filters off overnight after a water change before this started ?
    Any recent medications?
    How long was the tank cycled previously?
    What is your filter changing/cleaning routine? Do you possibly clean with tap water?

    A level of TAN of 1.0 is (at a ph of 6.8 and temp of 80.6) non-toxic. In fact you are safe at this pH/temp up to ~ 4.0. Regardless I would be changing the water daily or every other day to keep your ammonia well below that until you (re) cycle this tank. At the same time to be safe I would drop the pH to 6.6 and the temp to 78-80. Neither of those changes should excessively stress the fish.

    I would not start changing filter media just yet unless this tank was never cycled. Unless you are concerned in re CC I would first gently clean your 3 filters contents in tank water, then innoculate all 3 of your filters with material from a cycled tank filter. You should start seeing a drop in ammonia and a spike in nitrites within a few days. Your particular bottle of stability seems to be dead. Are you possibly also using a UV filter? That would certainly inhibit the bacteria in stability. If you do not want to use filter media from another tank, you can try a new bottle of stability or a different product, and if you have a UV turn it off for a couple of days after adding.

  3. #3
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Jose, what do you feed the fish in this tank ? How much and how often? When you take your ammonia readings at what time are you doing it? Is it before you feed your fish or after?
    Also its not clear from your post if this tank was ever fully cycled before you started seeing ammonia...if it was ..did you treat this tank with any meds?

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  4. #4
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    What I’m looking at is your filtration. Nothing there = a 125. The tidal 70 is good for a 40-50g and each 2117 is good for a 55-75 at best. So yes add them all up and you’re good but unless you’re cleaning them weekly they’re not enough. Waste build up in the canisters could be what’s lowering your ph. How is the ph in other tanks and out of the tap? Next how are the fish?

  5. #5
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    Jose Catala

    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Thank you for your reply.... this tank was setup in 2020 and was fully cycled. No UV on any tanks. I have 12 tanks... this is the only one that isn't planted.

    I usually feed all my tanks once a day, mid day, and I use a mix different dry foods. This tank gets Fluval bug bites and Tetra Min Flakes. Occasionally I drop an algae waffer in pieces for the plecos

    The only filter I turn off during the water change is the HOB.

    I clean the canisters about 30 days apart, and every 60 days or so. I have a whole house water filter, that removes chlorine, etc. ... I don't clean the biomedia with tap water. I use the tap to clean the foam pads and rinse out the canisters.

    The stability I am using was bought in Sept. '22. Emptied it yesterday. I should be getting a new bottle today via Amazon. I'll check if this one has an expiration date on it.

    I'm going to clean one of the canisters today, I'll move some biomedia from another tank to it and see if that helps.

  6. #6
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    Jose Catala

    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Thanks for your reply,
    I usually keep all my tanks at a PH below 7. Out of the tap it's over 8, that's one of the reasons I use RODI water. All the fish seem to be doing fine, eating and color looks good. The only reason I checked it, is because I had a rainbow all of sudden die, Other than her, no fish losses.

  7. #7
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    Jose Catala

    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Thanks Al,

    I've been taking the readings in the morning, before the water change and feeding the fish. I've cut back on the feeding by just barely putting a bit in each day. The last time I treated this tank with any meds was back in March '22. Kanaplex for 5 days... the angelfish came from another tank and had gotten pretty beat up. That's why I moved her.

  8. #8
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    So alls good. Female rainbow probably died due to mating. Males do attach them. Constantly going after them. Only thing I’d do is up your filtration with a wet(dry or a sump. Or an fx6.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Doen't prime turn to a harmless amonium phase and will give you a false positive readiing?
    Jay

  10. #10
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Yes it does. Some also say that in the nontoxic stage the bacteria doesn’t break the ammonia down.

  11. #11
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iminit View Post
    Yes it does. Some also say that in the nontoxic stage the bacteria doesn’t break the ammonia down.
    Yes, it breaks down by the BB.... Where did you read that it does not? I don't believe this to be so.

  12. #12
    Silver Member Iminit's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Other sites. Seems to be brought up regularly. I don’t use prime or any of the additives.

  13. #13
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    Prime does not remove ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate from the system. It simply binds making it safe for the inhabitants. The ammonia is still available to be consumed by bacteria. This is what Seachem FAQ's say.

  14. #14
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    The 6.6-6.8 ph will not have the toxic form of ammonia. Is this from your tap water? When PH is greater than 7 then ammonia will become toxic the higher the PH. If your water has chloramine and you use Prime you will get a false reading until the BB consumes the ammonia. What is the ammonia reading two days after a WC?

  15. #15
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    Don Speers

    Default Re: High Ammonia, need advice.

    That's why I asked you to check your nitrate levels on your other tanks. To validate that you are at 0 Nitrates which would rule out a false pos TAN from the breakdown of chloramine. Mervin have you seen levels up to 4 due to chloramine breakdown?

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