I need some help with my green tank

[Greg-Florida]

Yeah, I've got a bag of ceramic rings that has stayed in there and of course all the gravel and decorations.

The polishing pad is coming tomorrow and then we'll know. For now I don't want to beat this topic to death but...
I do see particles in the water.
Temp: 76
pH: 7.8
Ammon: 0-0.25 (has the slightest tinge of test kit green to it)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5-10 - last wc was 3 days ago.

IMG_6786.JPG IMG_6790.JPG

[jwcarlson]

Have you cleaned the impeller/tube/tub portion of the HOB at all, Greg? I know some people are lucky with their water and I don't know what yours is like. But mine leaves a scum/goop on everything and eventually it starts coming off in small pieces.

Additionally, my gravel tanks just always look like this. I know you said yours used to be clear, but my gravel tanks just have... stuff... floating in them. I tore the last one down this weekend and put it on sand. And immediately it's crystal clear. Not 100% sure why necessarily.

[Greg-Florida]

Have you cleaned the impeller/tube/tub portion of the HOB at all, Greg? I know some people are lucky with their water and I don't know what yours is like. But mine leaves a scum/goop on everything and eventually it starts coming off in small pieces.

Additionally, my gravel tanks just always look like this. I know you said yours used to be clear, but my gravel tanks just have... stuff... floating in them. I tore the last one down this weekend and put it on sand. And immediately it's crystal clear. Not 100% sure why necessarily.

Good thought, Jacob. Yes, I recently had a look and cleaned those items. They weren't bad. Yes, a scum does build up slowly. Thanks. My filter polishing pad did not show up yesterday so no test results yet. The pads in the new power head canisters are getting dirty so it's doing something.
We have some pillow stuffing around here that's flame retardant so I'm not going to use that risking that it was chemically treated.

[Greg-Florida]

Update, after 36 hours with the 50 micron pad and floss in both canisters on the new powerhead, the tank is still hazy.
I thought maybe it was air, so I unplugged the air sponge and the HOB for a couple hours, no change.
I'm sure it will clear in time.

[jwcarlson]

Is the tap water cloudy at all?

[bluelagoon]

Time. The floss doesn't have a high enough bb count in it yet. You have a more a chemical imbalance than a mechanic on. You shouldn't turn of the filters; air is most important to the BB to do it's job and could even stall your cycle even further. IMO

[bluelagoon]

Did you stop feeding the tank for a few days? Those fish can go a long time without eating. They are producing ammonia faster that the BB can handle.

[Greg-Florida]

Time. The floss doesn't have a high enough bb count in it yet. You have a more a chemical imbalance than a mechanic on. You shouldn't turn of the filters; air is most important to the BB to do it's job and could even stall your cycle even further. IMO
Did you stop feeding the tank for a few days? Those fish can go a long time without eating. They are producing ammonia faster that the BB can handle.

Okay, turning off the filters was a 2 hour test only.
I did not feed for 3 full days about a week ago. I'll back off again and keep vacuuming. Do more frequent water changes help or does that disrupt the cycling?

[Greg-Florida]

Is the tap water cloudy at all?

I did not test that but I will.

[dspeers]

There is an alternative viewpoint suggesting the haze is bacterial overgrowth, and arguing that there are two populations of surface adherent BB, one that handles the Nitrogen cycle and an additional group that consumes DOS, as well as other organics in the water column which essentially starves the organisms in the water column, clearing the haze. This second pop of BB need more surface area and takes longer to establish. The result being a cloudy situation until this group is established as well, even if ammonia and nitrite are 0/negligible. I do not accept all of what is written but to some degree it makes sense as otherwise UV and/or Ozone would not be such effective clarification agents. Also explains why under gravel tanks always had such clear water. Admittedly nitrate factories, but always crystal clear.
Not trying to start a firestorm but you can look it over and see if some of the info resonates https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/6-filtration/
Or, try adding a UV filter.

[bluelagoon]

It makes since to me. When I say chemical that also means DOC. That's way I say stop feeding til it clears. Excess food rot and fish waste/metabolism is too high for all types of BB to catch up. This tank started off with too much light and nitrates from not enough WC's making an algae bloom. That algae had a die off; that even means more waste in the tank. The big WC and washing those insert cartridges made an imbalance and through the cycle off. That seems to me what happened. Should be an easy fix. I would just get a good filter and stay away from cartridges and stick to filters that use sponges and room for media.

[Iminit]

Greg I’m at a loss! Just don’t understand why that filter isn’t clearing the water or where the white things are coming from. With the amount of gravel and ornaments and plants you couldn’t have killed all the bb. Just impossibly! You would have needed to add bleach to do that. The tank has been running for 2 yrs. Now with that amount of fish with no bb there would be ammonia. 30g 2 goldfish and 20 other fish. The cycle is working! Why you still have a bloom just doesn’t make sense. Why that filter can’t clear it just stumps me. Ok so here’s my next question and it’s stupid! Is the glass clean?. I mean it’s been 2 months no sick fish all test showing no ammonia I just don’t get it. Can’t understand how bio-film could be growing that fast.

[bluelagoon]

Greg. You might learn something from this. https://www.thesprucepets.com/old-tank-syndrome-1381225

[Greg-Florida]

Tested, no, tap is not cloudy at all. And we have a consistent municipal supply as far as I've experienced but I heard things change so I'm aware to test the tap water from time to time.
Thanks Jacob.

[Greg-Florida]

There is an alternative viewpoint suggesting the haze is bacterial overgrowth, and arguing that there are two populations of surface adherent BB, one that handles the Nitrogen cycle and an additional group that consumes DOS, .....

It makes since to me. When I say chemical that also means DOC. That's way I say stop feeding til it clears. Excess food rot and fish waste/metabolism is too high for all types of BB to catch up. This tank started off with too much light and nitrates from not enough WC's making an algae bloom. That algae had a die off; that even .....

Greg. You might learn something from this. https://www.thesprucepets.com/old-tank-syndrome-1381225

This conversation is very educational guys, I appreciate it.

Good article Mervin. I don't think we've neglected the tank over time but some of that may apply. The HOB gets cleaned once in a while, the glass regularly, etc. and every couple months I deep clean the gravel with the decorations removed. This all started with the green algae bloom.
It's actually looking significantly better today and I haven't changed any water in 5 days, kind of letting things stabilize.
We have healthy looking offspring if that's any indication, and had 3 babies 6 months ago who are now grown.

The DOC and lack of BB make sense. I will say, I ditched the cartridges and replaced with a coarse sponge 6 1/2 weeks ago, rinsed only once two weeks ago in tank water.
I put in an air sponge filter 5 weeks ago and it's not been rinsed yet. I have a good amount of ceramic rings in the filter that have been in there over a year and they only get lightly rinsed maybe every couple months.
I haven't cleaned my plants or gravel or any decorations recently. When I clean my HOB, I do not scrub it spotless, I only wipe it down to get out 80% of the light slimy buildup on the walls.

I do believe the cycle was disrupted to some degree and there are other things going on, and time will balance things. It's been a damn good learning experience and without this input, I'd be way behind in the learning curve.

My question at this point is, and the article may have answered it is... what level of wc's should I employ right now? I'm thinking that could go either way. Maybe small changes of 10-20% every couple days?
I'm def. cutting back on feedings.