Cotton mouth on Discus tank mate

[LizStreithorst]

Greg, Al has been taking good care of you with this problem so I'll let him answer. I hope that your son has an idea the lengths you have gone to to take care of his fish.

[Greg-Florida]

Greg, Al has been taking good care of you with this problem so I'll let him answer. I hope that your son has an idea the lengths you have gone to to take care of his fish.

Thank you Liz. I don’t think my son really knows the lengths but he knows I’m taking care of them and I speak to him every week and I’m not sure how appreciative he is.
If they were my fish I probably wouldn’t be as inquisitive but I’m pet sitting so extra care must be taken and there’s a steep learning curve so it’s a lot of information at once and I’m a little overloaded at work so things have been tough lately. I’m having issues with the corals as well. I appreciate you checking in, and it would be nice if others would chime in.

[Greg-Florida]

So How fast does ammonia build in a 29G with a little bit of food and waste on the bottom, are we talking hours or a day or two? I’m testing and results aren’t very revealing. I’m feeding very little of course because it’s just one fish.
Another question because I heard the only dumb question is the one not asked and the directions are very vague, so after a 25% water change after four days, are you redosing a full dose which would mean the concentration of medicine is higher in the tank?

[Greg-Florida]

Tonight ammonia is 0.25 ppm and nitrites are zero, nitrate is 0.

[brewmaster15]

A note on the ammonia..Yes ammonia will come from that little bit of food and waste in the tank but a very large source of the Ammonia in a tank is actually from the fishes Gills. Fish don't pass ammonia products out of their bodies like we do in the form of urine.. they excrete it from their gills. So if you have fish you have ammonia as a by-product of the food they eat and metabolism... it can build fast if the biofilter is impaired.

Yes your medication concentration would be higher by the reason that you havent removed it all and are adding more but chemicals break down in water and the mfg has probably factored that in..thats my thought and why many discus hobbyists tend to do large water changes daily when treating and redose.
Al

[Greg-Florida]

A note on the ammonia..Yes ammonia will come from that little bit of food and waste in the tank but a very large source of the Ammonia in a tank is actually from the fishes Gills. Fish don't pass ammonia products out of their bodies like we do in the form of urine.. they excrete it from their gills. So if you have fish you have ammonia as a by-product of the food they eat and metabolism... it can build fast if the biofilter is impaired.

Yes your medication concentration would be higher by the reason that you havent removed it all and are adding more but chemicals break down in water and the mfg has probably factored that in..thats my thought and why many discus hobbyists tend to do large water changes daily when treating and redose.
Al

Good, thanks for the explanation - that helps a lot. I think I'll give him another day or 2 in the qt since he seems to be cleared of the infection visually and then move him back to the discus tank.

[Greg-Florida]

Well, I've had a setback.

After the qt for 5 days and putting the danio back in the main tank, the white spot on his lip is back. I had not seen the spot in 3 days and thought I had my first antibiotic / qt victory.
I changed the water twice during the first 4 days and retreated with more nitrof. to replenish. He looked great. Does this new info help or change the diagnosis?
What about treating the main tank. I'd rather not unless necessary.

[brewmaster15]

Are you seeing any lip locking or other aggression from the other fish with the danio that has the issue?

[Greg-Florida]

Are you seeing any lip locking or other aggression from the other fish with the danio that has the issue?

No, nothing with the lips, these 3 giant danio's swim together at the top of tank briskly, keeping to themselves. This danio is the smallest of the 3 and I have seen him pushed a couple times by the bigger one's but rarely.

[brewmaster15]

Greg,
Based on what you have posted. I think its probably likely that you are dealing with a tumor here or virus nodule like lymphocystis. I think the Recovery you saw was because you effectively treated secondary infection from the dead tissue... fungus material. But it just came back because the primary cause is still there. . If its a cancer tumor the fish poses no risk to the other fish but if its a viral nodule like lymphocystis its more problematic... an easy read on it..

https://www.thesprucepets.com/lympho...r-fish-4782868

Unfortunately neither of these conditions are treatable..but the viral one is contagious and may already be in other fish dormant. I lost a large group of wild rams once to this.

Its possible this is still bacterial.. columnaris comes to mind but just one fish.and one spot is hard for me to believe thats the case. It would require more anitibiotics and stronger ones to treat it..I honestly would not recommend that.

What would I recommend? Its a tough call. I think if it were mine, I would euthanize the fish at this point. If its a tumor, it will probably grow and interfere with eating.. if its viral.. it poses a risk to.the other fish . Sometimes in husbandry of a species we have to make hard decisions that benefit the tank over the fish. Im sorry Greg.

Al

[bluelagoon]

Since you are going to euthanize it. I'm wondering if you have any ich cure around that contains malachite green and formalin. I wouldn't go out and buy something to cure a danio but if you have it; for what it costs you'd be better off getting another danio. Try to put it in a bucket and use that first. You won't need a heater for danios. The best med I think would have be the antibiotic nitrofurazone like mentioned. But once again only if I had it on hand.

[Greg-Florida]

Greg,
Based on what you have posted. I think its probably likely that you are dealing with a tumor here or virus nodule like lymphocystis. I think the Recovery you saw was because you effectively treated secondary infection from the dead tissue... fungus material. But it just came back because the primary cause is still there. . If its a cancer tumor the fish poses no risk to the other fish but if its a viral nodule like lymphocystis its more problematic... an easy read on it..

https://www.thesprucepets.com/lympho...r-fish-4782868

Unfortunately neither of these conditions are treatable..but the viral one is contagious and may already be in other fish dormant. I lost a large group of wild rams once to this.

Its possible this is still bacterial.. columnaris comes to mind but just one fish.and one spot is hard for me to believe thats the case. It would require more anitibiotics and stronger ones to treat it..I honestly would not recommend that.

What would I recommend? Its a tough call. I think if it were mine, I would euthanize the fish at this point. If its a tumor, it will probably grow and interfere with eating.. if its viral.. it poses a risk to.the other fish . Sometimes in husbandry of a species we have to make hard decisions that benefit the tank over the fish. Im sorry Greg.

Al

Since you are going to euthanize it. I'm wondering if you have any ich cure around that contains malachite green and formalin. I wouldn't go out and buy something to cure a danio but if you have it; for what it costs you'd be better off getting another danio. Try to put it in a bucket and use that first. You won't need a heater for danios. The best med I think would have be the antibiotic nitrofurazone like mentioned. But once again only if I had it on hand.

Thank you guys. I'll make a decision soon. I appreciate it.

So Mervin, if I did the bucket, I have heaters. I assume 84 degrees vs. 76 is a better/faster treatment and would an airstone be useful, or some salt?

Greg

[bluelagoon]

84 is a bit high for danios. Home temperature should be fine. Higher temps less oxygen. For one danoi and if the bucket is about half full and not full, I think you might have enough air in the water for just that fish coming in by barometric pressure. Salt won't hurt but I don't think it's necessary. Give it about 10 days and see wait happens. No need to feed much if any.

[Greg-Florida]

84 is a bit high for danios. Home temperature should be fine. Higher temps less oxygen. For one danoi and if the bucket is about half full and not full, I think you might have enough air in the water for just that fish coming in by barometric pressure. Salt won't hurt but I don't think it's necessary. Give it about 10 days and see wait happens. No need to feed much if any.

Thanks Mervin. Would I be doing water changes in the 10 days, replenishing chems?

[bluelagoon]

Maybe replace after 4-5 days with another half bucket from your tank. That is not the regular treatment tho. It's just a last ditch effort for something that going to be euthanized anyway.