Cotton mouth on Discus tank mate

[Greg-Florida]

It's always something new. I'm not complaining, learning a lot.

I had a discus die last week due to suspected Capillaria - nematodes. I QT'd him and treated too late. The other fish in the main tank are all good and eating.

Prudence (and Al) suggests treating the main tank for the worms also so I dosed this morning with Expel-P (Levamisole).
There is no salt or carbon in the tank. I just read turning off the lights during a Levamisole treatment is suggested, but I didn't. They'll get 12 hours of dark starting now.

Anyway, I now noticed one of my 3 giant Danio's has a cotton-looking "bulb" or growth on his lip. Tough to get photos or these guys. It may have been there for a day or two at most.

I don't want to disturb the current Levamisole treatment and not sure about two treatments at the same time.
Research tells me it may be columnaris bacteria (cotton mouth) which is bacterial. More research tells me it most certainly is bacterial in nature. I'm so new I'm not making any guesses.

The plan now is tomorrow I'll change 50% of the water and again the next day to get out the Levamisole.
Suggestions?
IMG_5895.jpg . . . IMG_5896.jpg

[brewmaster15]

Greg, I would do nothing else at this point and finish up the levamisole. If that hospital tank is running move the danio to it . That lip is probably a bacterial infection.. .. which you can treat separately. Sometimes its from an injury or lip locking.. Theres always the chance its something like lymphocystis but Im guessing not here.

In the hospital tank you can treat with a general aquarium antibiotic .. I prefer Furan 2 .. or something containing nitrofurazone..

Screenshot_20230225-224959_Chrome.jpg

That should help it resolve.

Hth,
Al

Ps.. if you prefer no antibiotics.. try salt at 1 tablespoon per gal for a week... its pretty effective on fungus and inhibits columnaris..if thats the base cause.

[Greg-Florida]

Greg, I would do nothing else at this point and finish up the levamisole. If that hospital tank is running move the danio to it . That lip is probably a bacterial infection.. .. which you can treat separately. Sometimes its from an injury or lip locking.. Theres always the chance its something like lymphocystis but Im guessing not here.

In the hospital tank you can treat with a general aquarium antibiotic .. I prefer Furan 2 .. or something containing nitrofurazone..

That should help it resolve.

Hth,
Al

Ps.. if you prefer no antibiotics.. try salt at 1 tablespoon per gal for a week... its pretty effective on fungus and inhibits columnaris..if thats the base cause.

Thank you Al.
I can set up the qt tank easily. I'll see if I can find some nitrofurazone locally today, if not I'll do the salt.
I like the salt method because it treats all the fish and hits a variety
of things simultaneously, if present. Though that is a lot of salt :-) 1 TBSP/gallon.
I assume I can mix table salt, aquarium and epsom.

[brewmaster15]

1 Tablespoon per 1 gallon as measured (Level tablespoon not heaping) sounds alot but it isn't ..If you feel more comfortable, try 1 tablespoon per 2 gals. Not epsom,, use Sodium Chloride... regular table salt. no iodine is prefered.

al

[Greg-Florida]

1 Tablespoon per 1 gallon as measured (Level tablespoon not heaping) sounds alot but it isn't ..If you feel more comfortable, try 1 tablespoon per 2 gals. Not epsom,, use Sodium Chloride... regular table salt. no iodine is prefered.

al

I'll do 60 TBSP for 60 gallons. Want to do it right and thoroughly as long as I'm doing it. Heading to the grocery store now.
I think I'll introduce 50% today in 2 doses a couple hours apart and then the balance tomorrow so as not to surprise the shoal.
Thanks again!

P.S. I presume frequent water changes for the 7 days are preferred with salt replenishment, of course.

[brewmaster15]

I'll do 60 TBSP for 60 gallons. Want to do it right and thoroughly as long as I'm doing it. Heading to the grocery store now.
I think I'll introduce 50% today in 2 doses a couple hours apart and then the balance tomorrow so as not to surprise the shoal.
Thanks again!

P.S. I presume frequent water changes for the 7 days are preferred with salt replenishment, of course.

yes, just replace what you take out in water with the appropriate amount of salt and water.

al

[Greg-Florida]

Update:
I'm doing a main tank salt treatment...

I did a 50% WC Sunday, 28 hours after dosing Levamisole Saturday (for possible nematodes) and
began 60 TBSP (for 60 G tank) salt Sunday night to treat suspected cotton mouth. (I'll repeat the Levamisole
2 more times 3 weeks apart.)

48 hours later - tonight - did a 50% WC and added back the salt taken.

What I've noticed is everyone seems happy and content but appetites are very suppressed - even in the non-Discus tank mates.
Tank is at 85 degrees which is our standard.

Is suppressed appetite normal?

[jwcarlson]

1 tablespoon per gallon? I did 1 per 5 gallons and thought it was a lot.

I've had levamisole knock them off food, sometimes pretty hard for 5+ days. Usually not the first treatment, but the 2nd or 3rd in a series.
They'll act excited and want to come eat and then just lose that excitement. Can take a while to come back. Some treatments they've almost seemed not to care. Usually I just don't feed while it's in the tank and then give them a little bit after it comes out and see if they actually eat it. Don't want to go dropping two cubes of beefheart in if they're not going to eat it.

[brewmaster15]

Jacobs observations are correct here. Levamisole can cause loss of appetite during treatment. It can take a few days to return ... I too would feed very little while treating if that happens.

Al

[Greg-Florida]

1 tablespoon per gallon? I did 1 per 5 gallons and thought it was a lot.

I've had levamisole knock them off food, sometimes pretty hard for 5+ days. Usually not the first treatment, but the 2nd or 3rd in a series.
They'll act excited and want to come eat and then just lose that excitement. Can take a while to come back. Some treatments they've almost seemed not to care. Usually I just don't feed while it's in the tank and then give them a little bit after it comes out and see if they actually eat it. Don't want to go dropping two cubes of beefheart in if they're not going to eat it.

Yes, 1 TBSP / Gallon
"if you prefer no antibiotics... try salt at 1 tablespoon per gal for a week... its pretty effective on fungus and inhibits columnaris..if thats the base cause."

Thanks for your replies Jacob and Al, good to know.

[Greg-Florida]

Hey, everyone reading this, please go see this short video,
hit the like button and subscribe to Al's youtube channel.
It will help him out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xQrjBo2ahU

(Whoops, posted this to the wrong thread, but I'm leaving it here!)

[bluelagoon]

I don't think you should wait for 3 weeks for your second treatment. By 3 weeks all treatment should be finished for worms. Most do it a week apart, sometimes 5 days apart, total 3 treatments and vacuuming the bottom.

[brewmaster15]

The dosing on the levamisole is a little subjective. my personal treatment is based loosely off the University of Florida paper on Nematode control.

Levamisole can be used both in the feed and as a bath treatment. One effective oral dose is 1.8 grams of levamisole per pound of food fed once a week for three weeks. One effective bath treatment dose is 2 ppm (mg/liter) levamisole for 24 hours, with a repeat treatment in two to three weeks

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...matodes6.shtml

I treat 3 times.

Day 1.. 24 hours bath
Day 7... 24 hours bath

then I followup with a 3rd dose from 3-4 weeks of the start in case I missed anything. That 3rd dose timing is not really critical imo. The 3rd dose most likely does nothing but make me feel I did a thorough job...Its the first two doses that matter IMO.

I think its important to note the reason why I say its subjective, its because every worm species has a different life cycle and time to maturity. We are really just guessing here.. But I think its also relevant to note that Levamisole is potent enough to kill worms in one feeding or one 24 hour bath at that dose of 2ppm..

al

[Greg-Florida]

If I begin Levamisole treatment number 2 after the 7 days salt treatment I'm in now, what, if anything, do I need to do before beginning Levamisole treatment number 2?
I'm maintaining 1 TBSP/Gal. Do a 50% WC then dose Levamisole for 24 hours?

I see from info above and the UF paper dosing intervals for the bath range from 1 to 3 weeks. Maybe I'll wait 2, then do the third 3 weeks later.

[brewmaster15]

It should not matter if theres salt in the tank or not if you are treating with levamisole.its always a good idea to do a good waterchange before any medications are used though.

Hth,