Fish won't eat after treatment

[solasis]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Fish stopped eating around 2 weeks ago. Thought it was trying to spawn since it had spawned a week before, but that never occurred.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Turned a little dark, shed some slime coat, and stopped eating. There is a small abrasion on the front of the face. I am unsure if this is hole in the head, or an abrasion from spawning. I talked to a few people and they weren't sure either.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I tried octocil in a seperate tank. This was a 6 day treatment. She started spewing out white poop. Treatment ended yesterday.
She is still alone in her QT tank, she is not dark nor shedding slime coat. But still is a terrible eater. She might be picking food when I am away, but doesn't want to come up to the front. I turned up the temp in the QT tank to 86.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
180 gallon


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
80% 2x a week

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

1/2 inch of sand, been running around 8-9 months.
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes I age my water, there is no PH swing. I age to heat it.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Seachem prime.

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 83

- ph 7.7

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 5

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water 100%

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
The last fish was a l200 pleco around 2 months ago. It was QT'd but not treated as I never saw any symptoms.


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Food 3x a day, FDBW for dinner, ocean nutrition flakes for breakfast and lunch.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
339752873_607377261267751_1904873317970157487_n.jpg Here is the abrasion that I am referring to. It just showed up one day, hasn't gotten better but hasn't gotten worse. This photo was from the start of the treatment where she was still stressed. She has normal coloring now, but still doesn't want to eat.

[brewmaster15]

HI Carter,
Anytime you treat with medications that are essentially a chemical cocktail there can be adverse reactions. Different water parameters and pH and temp can all affect absorption of medications. Its possible that your fish is sensitive to one or more compounds in the octocil. I have no experience with that medication but we have seen sensitivity to various dewormers and antiparasite medications from discus to discus.

Your fish were not eating before treatment so I have to wonder what was going on internally.. was there any swelling? Or white feces before treating?

"She started spewing out white poop." This does not usually happen when you treat a fish for parasites.. it can happen if the fish is passing tapeworms. Do you happen to have pics?

See here...http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...apeworms.shtml

It can also happen when theres a bacterial infection and blockage that lets go.

Al

[brewmaster15]

That circled area looks like an abrasion thats healing... but the photo is not really great in terms of details.. HITH usually starts with a small hole that gets larger from center out.

[solasis]

HI Carter,
Anytime you treat with medications that are essentially a chemical cocktail there can be adverse reactions. Different water parameters and pH and temp can all affect absorption of medications. Its possible that your fish is sensitive to one or more compounds in the octocil. I have no experience with that medication but we have seen sensitivity to various dewormers and antiparasite medications from discus to discus.

Your fish were not eating before treatment so I have to wonder what was going on internally.. was there any swelling? Or white feces before treating?

"She started spewing out white poop." This does not usually happen when you treat a fish for parasites.. it can happen if the fish is passing tapeworms. Do you happen to have pics?

See here...http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...apeworms.shtml

It can also happen when theres a bacterial infection and blockage that lets go.

Al

Hi, thank you for the reply. Her poop didn't look like the tapeworm photos. It was thick and mucus like. I never caught her passing anything before treatment. This tank had been treated with flubendazole in the past in the form of wormer plus.

[brewmaster15]

Hi, thank you for the reply. Her poop didn't look like the tapeworm photos. It was thick and mucus like. I never caught her passing anything before treatment. This tank had been treated with flubendazole in the past in the form of wormer plus.

That makes sense as a possible explanation. Sometimes when we deworm fish and there are alot of worms the worms literally die in the fish.. Tapeworms are expelled as they really are just hanging on by the mouth to the lining of the intestines...but other worms can be in the tissue. When they die.. they can cause an infection... it maybe what you saw being passed.

As for now.. you have dewormed and treated with anti protozoan med.. possibly had an infection. Its alot on a fish and they can take time to recover. I wish there was a shortcut here but there really isnt a medication or treatment that you can do here. Your best bet is to be patient and offer food daily .. keep the water clean and stable.

If you see any swelling or passing of whitish junk, add epsom salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gal and keep us posted as to how the fish is.

Al.

[solasis]

That makes sense as a possible explanation. Sometimes when we deworm fish and there are alot of worms the worms literally die in the fish.. Tapeworms are expelled as they really are just hanging on by the mouth to the lining of the intestines...but other worms can be in the tissue. When they die.. they can cause an infection... it maybe what you saw being passed.

As for now.. you have dewormed and treated with anti protozoan med.. possibly had an infection. Its alot on a fish and they can take time to recover. I wish there was a shortcut here but there really isnt a medication or treatment that you can do here. Your best bet is to be patient and offer food daily .. keep the water clean and stable.

If you see any swelling or passing of whitish junk, add epsom salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gal and keep us posted as to how the fish is.

Al.

Thank you . Should I keep the water at the same temp (83-84) or crank it up a bit?

[LizStreithorst]

Flubedazol kills the adult worms but leaves their eggs. When I use Flubendazole I worm 3 times every 2 weeks if it's bad, or 2 times every 3 weeks. It similar to the Panacur or Safeguard we worm our dogs with.

[jeep]

. Different water parameters and pH and temp can all affect absorption of medications. Its possible that your fish is sensitive to one or more compounds in the octocil.

I don't have experience with Octocil either, but I have seen reports that ph can play a serious and potentially adverse role. I would maintain consistent water changes and ph stability. I would keep the temp around 82.

[solasis]

Thanks everyone. I'll make sure she just gets some clean water and rest. I guess I worded my initial post wrong. Treatment didn't make it worse, just didn't help.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks everyone. I'll make sure she just gets some clean water and rest. I guess I worded my initial post wrong. Treatment didn't make it worse, just didn't help.

Hi Carter ,
Because you arent seeing an immediate improvement in appetite doesnt meant the treatment didnt help. If there was a parasite problem.in your fish...treating the fish to kill these parasites is only the first part of tgem healing. Damaged tissue can take time to heal and if they havent been eating awhile fish may take time to get their full appetite back.

Something obviously that did change between deworming and treating with octocil that caused the fish to pass a bunch of white junk... thats usually from an infection. Hopefully the fish will recover over time... definitely watch for swelling and more white feces.

[solasis]

Really happy this morning. After the main tanks treatment of Octocil, I decided to add her back. I was worried about her being secluded for too long down there. It was quite sweet, when I added her back in the tank her mate swam up to her and they hung out with eachother. A few hours later though, she looked pretty stressed. Not sure what happened, if the move or something was bothering her. But today, I woke up and she was completely back to normal. Begging for food and when I fed the ocean nutrition flakes, she gobbled them up. Overall, everyone seems to be doing good. Thanks for the help everyone.

[brewmaster15]

Really happy this morning. After the main tanks treatment of Octocil, I decided to add her back. I was worried about her being secluded for too long down there. It was quite sweet, when I added her back in the tank her mate swam up to her and they hung out with eachother. A few hours later though, she looked pretty stressed. Not sure what happened, if the move or something was bothering her. But today, I woke up and she was completely back to normal. Begging for food and when I fed the ocean nutrition flakes, she gobbled them up. Overall, everyone seems to be doing good. Thanks for the help everyone.

That is awesome news Carter! Glad to hear that she is fine now!

Al