nitrate question

[brady]

What is the "good" measurement for nitrates? What is the effect on fish from "bad" measurements?
Jay

[brewmaster15]

Jay for most fresh water fish 80ppm is the the upper most level ...beyond that its considered by most to be toxic..

With Discus... I think they do best with nitrates under 20 ppm.. 5-15ppm is a very good range.

Discus can get very stressed as the nitrates climb which in turn affects their behavior and overall health.

Heres a decent article at TFH..

https://www.tfhmagazine.com/articles...p-with-nitrate

Hth,al

[brady]

Thanks AL.
I was pretty sure of that Number. Maybe some newbies might benefit from the info.
Jay

[brewmaster15]

Absolutely! I would also be interested if anyone here wants to talk about the nitrate levels they general see in their tanks and what they target as levels.

Al

[Vanman]

When we were keeping Discus thirty years ago I never tested for nitrate or anything else except PH and TDS, and rarely tested that. Doing massive daily water changes I saw no reason to test. When we get more soon I plan on doing the same.

[LizStreithorst]

Back when I had my test kit my nitrates were always at 5. I don't bother testing any more since my maintenance has remained the same.

[GregMD]

Since I am very much a Discus newbie I have been testing. Mine are always under 20 and typically around 5-10. That’s with 7 juvenile fish in a 66 gallon. I have been doing every other day water changes. Occasionally every 3rd day.

[Iminit]

Not a checker on any of my tank.The api test kit really is a joke! The color chart is vague at best.

[brewmaster15]

Not a checker on any of my tank.The api test kit really is a joke! The color chart is vague at best.

Tom Im guessing with your plants and water changes nitrates arent an issue...

I think for most people that keep discus under frequent water changes nitrates are not so much an issue.

I do know that for some people that are on wells nitrates can be in their water particularly if they are in agricultural areas.. I have known people with nitrates that exceed public health levels of less than 10ppm In drinking water. Mine run 5-10ppm , probably from the farm across the street.


This is pure speculation so take it with a grain of salt.. a large grain of salt. In humans nitrates higher than 10ppm In drinking water maybe tolerated by adults but babies can develop methemoglobinemia.. basically the hemoglobin cant carry oxygen as well. This results in "blue baby syndrome" and is treatable by methylene blue. This condition is exactly like what we see in fish that have nitrite poisoning. In fish we call that brown blood disease. So here is my extrapolated food for thought What if adult discus are more tolerant of nitrates than fry... what if nitrates even in low amounts stress out fry and are a factor in all those cases we hear of when people loose fry after a few weeks. Obviously oxygen is critical to a fish . Just speculating outloud.

[Iminit]

I don’t know Al but the whole nitrate thing seems like a scam . I’ve got a good old API kit from 2003 with old Dr Wellfish on it. It didn’t even come with a nitrate test but did have a gh test. My opinion is somewhere after that the industry was trying to find something new to sell. Nitrate became the great motivator! I’ve spoke to many people who’ve never tested their tanks and all fish were fine (never discus) and been living in the tanks for years without a problem. When they bought the kits and tested their tanks the nitrate was toped out. Fish (not discus) seem to be able to adapt to nitrates. Adding new fish to a high nitrate tank was in most cases a death sentence. Why the whole drip acclamation came into effect. Remember back in the 70s and before. Yes well before the internet and your information came from the store owner or if you could afford TFH. Nobody changed water. At best once a month with most just adding for evaporation. If there was a nitrate kit it wasn’t affordable. Probably cost much more than those 50 cent fish we were buying . So the nitrate levels must of been very high.

Yes I’d say the next hardest thing to keep would be discus fry! So whatever can be done needs to be done! 0 nitrates,special water, only classical music played….. my other fish breed like crazy in anything. After 40+years of people keeping discus you’d think someone would have made a durable discus. Think Sterker was on to it. My Hans were very durable till they met the Asain curse!! Lol.

Also funny is cherry shrimp. I got into these just before I got back into discus. These guys seem to thrive in anything. It’s recomended not to change water as much. I’ve never tested the tanks for nitrates but when I do change water what comes out is black! I’m mean the dirtiest water ever. It’s so bad I don’t even water the plants with it . Ok I don’t water the plants with it because I spend about an hour removing all the shrimplets and shrimp that get caught in the removal.

[brewmaster15]

Tom I dont think its a scam.. I do think theres alot factors involved in figuring these things out. Aquaculture has come a long way in the last 50 years.. billions of dollars into research for a multibillion dollar industry today...ornamental fish being a small part of it.. Food fish being a huge part of it. I think they have a pretty good handle on this stuff.

I also take it with a grain of salt when we talk about what we used to do decades ago as working fine.. it didnt and doesnt ..or we would still be doing it. keeping fish alive for months at a time isnt hard.. they take forever to waste away and die. I can tell you with great certainty that the fish I keep today are many times as healthy robust and long lived as the many fish I and other hobbyists killed decades ago when we were experienced and doing everything "right" at the time.

Al

[bluelagoon]

Tom I dont think its a scam.. I do think theres alot factors involved in figuring these things out. Aquaculture has come a long way in the last 50 years.. billions of dollars into research for a multibillion dollar industry today...ornamental fish being a small part of it.. Food fish being a huge part of it. I think they have a pretty good handle on this stuff.

I also take it with a grain of salt when we talk about what we used to do decades ago as working fine.. it didnt and doesnt ..or we would still be doing it. keeping fish alive for months at a time isnt hard.. they take forever to waste away and die. I can tell you with great certainty that the fish I keep today are many times as healthy robust and long lived as the many fish I and other hobbyists killed decades ago when we were experienced and doing everything "right" at the time.

Al

[wsantia1]

I am a newbie with Discus but with daily water changes my nitrate levels come in at 5 ppm on my Discus tank. My other tanks come in at around 20 ppm for nitrates.

[Iminit]

I hear you Al but I’d say 50% of the fish keepers out there never come to the internet and are running their tanks with no info but their past experience. Don’t own a test kit or have a clue what a cycle is. I’m on another site I met these people regularly. The misinformed far outweigh those with knowledge. And what’s generally available on Facebook is scary.Go to any discus forum on Facebook! 90% of the keeper are beginners who have never heard of cycling a tank and add every additive or med to the tank on a regular basis. Plus they keep 30+ discus in their 125 g tanks.j
Go to Discus Review.

[Willie]

...In humans nitrates higher than 10ppm In drinking water maybe tolerated by adults but babies can develop methemoglobinemia.. basically the hemoglobin cant carry oxygen as well. This results in "blue baby syndrome" and is treatable by methylene blue...

To put this in perspective, EPA sets the upper safe limit for nitrate in drinking water at 20 ppm.

I wouldn't want to drink tap water at the upper limit for nitrate. Similarly, fish may tolerate 100 ppm nitrate. But that doesn't mean it's the appropriate level for water changes.