Questions Not Answered in Stickies.

[fljones3]

It is not Joey. It is a presentation from Al on discus. Joey just introduces it.
Helpful presentation.

[Iminit]

Welcome back !! Hope it wasn’t something I said .

Ok you’re doing a lot inthe sump. Remember you’re still going to be changing water. Going with juveniles look at daily 50-90% water changes. There’s nothing cheap about juveniles. Tons more work and no guarantee you get what you ordered. My advice buy the biggest you can afford. These will be strong healthy discus. You’re saving all the money you’d be spending on food and water changes. Yes you’ll need to feed those little guys 6x a day!!
As to the sump you don’t need the floss in the socks. Just clean the socks with every water change. The matten filter are sponge right? I’d add one big enough that the water has to go through it. The k2 they say is great. Th Swiss stuff is sponge? And ceramics in the end is fine though I’m starting to think they’re worthless.

[Willie]

Experienced reef keepers have a much harder adjustment to successfully keeping discus. Reefs require a ton of expensive equipment and restraint (don't add anything) is critical for success. Discus requires virtually no equipment (a sponge filter and a heater) and huge amount of sweat equity. You can't keep reefs healthy with a sponge filter and a heater. Similarly, all that reef stuff cannot keep healthy discus. Discus keepers spend all our money on the fish, not much else.

In many ways, the proposed plan seem to pick the single most difficult approach in every respect. No water changes, but with a sand substrate and lots of vegetation. How would the water stay clean? Discus come from soft, low pH water in the Amazon, with virtually no bacterial activity. Salinity aside, soft water is extremely different than ocean water. Mattenfilters are incredible for biological filtration, but cleaning them will disrupt the entire tank. If you don't clean them, then how would the water stay clean?

Just like discus, zebra plecos are advanced fish. Advanced means expensive and impossible to keep alive without making changes to adapt to their needs. Having raised both successfully, I can assure you that these two cannot be successfully maintained together. The zebras may live for 6 - 9 months before they fade away, at $200 a pop. Also, adding angels are problematic. Many of the experienced discus keepers have learned not to do this.

Sorry, but it has to be said.

[pitdogg2]

Heck I was doing 90% water changes a day.....
I hope that doesn't freak the OP out 😬

[Overstock Queen]

Experienced reef keepers have a much harder adjustment to successfully keeping discus. Reefs require a ton of expensive equipment and restraint (don't add anything) is critical for success. Discus requires virtually no equipment (a sponge filter and a heater) and huge amount of sweat equity. You can't keep reefs healthy with a sponge filter and a heater. Similarly, all that reef stuff cannot keep healthy discus. Discus keepers spend all our money on the fish, not much else.

In many ways, the proposed plan seem to pick the single most difficult approach in every respect. No water changes, but with a sand substrate and lots of vegetation. How would the water stay clean? Discus come from soft, low pH water in the Amazon, with virtually no bacterial activity. Salinity aside, soft water is extremely different than ocean water. Mattenfilters are incredible for biological filtration, but cleaning them will disrupt the entire tank. If you don't clean them, then how would the water stay clean?

Just like discus, zebra plecos are advanced fish. Advanced means expensive and impossible to keep alive without making changes to adapt to their needs. Having raised both successfully, I can assure you that these two cannot be successfully maintained together. The zebras may live for 6 - 9 months before they fade away, at $200 a pop. Also, adding angels are problematic. Many of the experienced discus keepers have learned not to do this.

Sorry, but it has to be said.

I don't think you fully read my past posts or you didn't understand. Or you just knee jerked. I understand that, this hobby is full of that. I'm not just a reef keeper. I also have a 700 gallon pond, currently 4 planted tanks, one reef, several shrimp tanks, and two breeding tanks. The reason I am using the equipment I mentioned; that is geared "reef" is because it's what I have on hand. Like you said, I want to spend my money on the fish. Not equipment. Sponge filters are amazing. I use them in all three of my shrimp tanks and my breeding tanks. I would love to not have to use a crap ton of sponges and filtration in the sump. I even mentioned I have tons of canisters if people thought that was the route to go. That would really keep things clean and tidy. The sump adds a bit of ease to keeping the discus healthy. It's easy to clean and change as I adapt to the fishes needs. I already said angels are out. My first post I was worried about the water changes, I admitted that freely. And after advice here, and locally I have learned tap is more than ok. One of our local fish stores has them spawning in our local water. I'm offended you think I am not going to take the advice. Yes I will be doing water changes. Yes I am going to put sand in the tank. I understand the concern. That is the only thing I am unwilling to budge on. So maybe I deserve your ire there. I hardly think it will be my undoing. As for the plants, I'm not some mom that goes to petco on the weekends for her 2 gallon betta bowl with her ball of algae. So don't get it twisted Willie. And I hardly call easy to grow low light java and crypt "LOTS OF VEGETATION" LOL don't even go there. Look, if you think the fish is going to see a plant and die right then and there then I won't throw some plants in there. If the concern is the plant will die I got 200 gallons more of those. If zebras don't work then I won't do it. Simple as that.

If you guys say I don't want juveniles then you are right. I will buy big healthy adults. I will do water changes everyday. What I need now is advice on how to get started. The tank is sitting on the floor right now in an unfinished room. Hell the stand won't even be here until Sept. I'm hardly rushing into this.

The reason Willie you got me heated is I am not the one you need to come for. I know I am a noob here, rare territory for me, but I am trying to make it clear I am open to advice. Yes, I use sarcasm and I'm flippant, but I am willing to learn. Now let's have a beer and do some water changes.

Photo for the tax.

I am watching that video now. Thank you.

20190423_174714.jpg

[Iminit]

Lola! I’m glad you’re going to give it a try. I’d say many to all are glad you’re moving ahead. It’s great when an accomplished keeper come on board. Thing is here and on other sites I read so many who don’t want to do the work and think equipment will make it easy. Discus are easy. They really are. Clean new water and good food. Buy fish from good sellers. Buy as big as you can when starting. 4.5-6”. This just starts you in the right direction. You’ve already said you’re on board with that . Hey the sand well that’s up to you. Many paint the outside bottom a sand color. Looks great! No mater with bare bottom you’ve got to cover the bottom or you’ll get reflections.

Next you will need a 40-50g qt tank. Someplace to move a sick discus or a stressed discus. Also you may want to put all your newly bought discus into this tank to prepare them for the main tank. Its some much easier to watch them in the qt for the first 4 weeks. Water changing is easier cause you’re changing less. Gives them a month for them to get used to your water.

Beautiful planted tank! Nicely scaped!

For the tax . My 180 with wet/dry49457468-3A18-44CF-AF49-08B1A9408E99.jpg

[Willie]

...So don't get it twisted Willie....

I reread my own post and there were no words that can be construed as an attack on you or anyone else. I would never use terms like 'knee jerked' or 'twisted'
to describe anyone in the forum, nor do I try to 'twist' anyone's comments. You asked for an assessment of your approach and I provided it.

[LizStreithorst]

I read it, to. I think the OP may have overreacted just a bit. Lola, nobody here means you harm.

[Overstock Queen]

I'm fat, old, and I don't have time for the debbie downers. Crap if I wanted that I would go to fish tank talk. So I 100% stand by my words. Trust me no one can harm me I worked in hospitality for 20 years.

I have decided against the plants. Maybe in the future I might consider it.

I am also might reconsider the sand.

I tested my tap water today. The municipal water report is from last month so I thought I would compare notes. I think you can email and get more current. TDS with two inline and one had held all say 74. That is a good day the norm is the nineties. KH was 6.1. PH 8.0. Ammonia was a solid 1ppm using API and Salifert. They were in agreement, and Nitrates were 10. The city's report is close, they are reading arsenic which is the norm because we have an aquafer. Arsenic is naturally occurring. It's at levels so low I can't hardly comprehend it. My RO unit removes it. I haven't used tap in years so I am nervous. The local people here keep telling me not to be. So I guess I will just go with it.

I didn't even consider a QT. I have a 55 for the koi. But its set up in the garage and would be the death of discus since I can't regulate heat. I'll have to ponder on that.

I have to go to Seattle. Is there somewhere there that might have discus to check out?

[LizStreithorst]

A lot of us are old farts here. I'm not fat but I'm old and bent with degenerative disc disease. Really. Ammonia and nitrates as they stand might be a problem if you took your readings from your tap water. You want 0 from ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Did you take a nitrite reading? If the readings are you took are from an already established tank the readings might be OK. For a Discus tank you need ammonia and nitrites at 0 and nitrates between 5 and 10. Hope that helps. I live in the Southeast Can't help you with suppliers in that area the Seattle.

[brewmaster15]

I'm fat, old, and I don't have time for the debbie downers. Crap if I wanted that I would go to fish tank talk. So I 100% stand by my words. Trust me no one can harm me I worked in hospitality for 20 years.

I have decided against the plants. Maybe in the future I might consider it.

I am also might reconsider the sand.

I tested my tap water today. The municipal water report is from last month so I thought I would compare notes. I think you can email and get more current. TDS with two inline and one had held all say 74. That is a good day the norm is the nineties. KH was 6.1. PH 8.0. Ammonia was a solid 1ppm using API and Salifert. They were in agreement, and Nitrates were 10. The city's report is close, they are reading arsenic which is the norm because we have an aquafer. Arsenic is naturally occurring. It's at levels so low I can't hardly comprehend it. My RO unit removes it. I haven't used tap in years so I am nervous. The local people here keep telling me not to be. So I guess I will just go with it.

I didn't even consider a QT. I have a 55 for the koi. But its set up in the garage and would be the death of discus since I can't regulate heat. I'll have to ponder on that.

I have to go to Seattle. Is there somewhere there that might have discus to check out?

On your water.. you can give yourselve piece of mind by running your water through the sediment and carbon block of your Ro water filter....the carbon will remove up to 70% of any arsenic.. just hook it up with out the r/o membrane.

If you have an outlet for that 55 gal tank.. alls you need for qt is a heater and air driven sponge filters or hang on back filters.. nothing fancy. I WOULD ADVISE AT LEAST 6 WEEKS QT.
AL

[brewmaster15]

Can you post your water report? Does it show ammonia? 1 PPM in your test is unusual.. Its not common to have ammonia in your tap water... nitrates yes.(10ppm in municipal water is high).. but ammonia that is in water is usually from water that treated by the municipality with chloramines...its a break down component.

[brewmaster15]

Still with us? Hopefully we didn't chase you away.
Al

[farebox]

I would like to chime in on this thread. First, your sump design looks similar to the one I'm using, a Trigger system Crytal 30 for my 125-gallon discus tank. Second, I feel that you should re-think the bio-media you plan to use. Have you figured out how to contain the K-2 media in its chamber when you turn off your return pump, the water level in the sump will rise. Second, all this matten filter will block the flow into the middle chamber. I would just use the bio-media of your choice in media bags for the first and second chambers. My sump setup consists of a 200-micron filter sock and three bags of Seachem Matrix in the first chamber, three bags of Bio-home Ultimate, and nothing thereafter in the third chamber. Good luck with your tank and fish. Highly recommend getting your discus from one of the sponsors here on SD, trust me on this, you will avoid a lot of problems associated with these fish first starting out regardless of what you have done in the past.