Questions Not Answered in Stickies.

[Overstock Queen]

Thinking about starting a discus tank. Have a few questions. I have roughly 20 years of Aquarium builds. Planted tanks, but mostly reef. I have a 90 gallon Custom Brands aquarium with a 37 gallon Trigger Ruby Sump. Never been used. Ever. Two SB Reef Planted lights, not even taken out of the box. So I thought I might as well do something with all this crap laying around. Auto top off, return pump, plumbing, heater controller you know? Why not something I've never tried, Discus.

My questions are, my return pump is DC capable of up to 1280 gallons per hour. How much flow is really needed? Reef is 15-20 over, I was thinking maybe 4x on the discus or can they handle more? Tank has two return lines. Can diffuse.

I read here that bottomless is the way to go. I don't want to even get into the battle here. I want the look of sand. I'm willing to do the husbandry.

Food. I don't have a bloodworm hook up anymore. What sort of food should I look for?

Where do I buy Discus? Our local store doesn't carry healthy looking Discus.

What plants are hardy in lower PH with 87 degrees? I see a ton of Java in discus tank and **shudder** pothos, will Crypts make it? Do I really need to keep the tank at 87 degrees? Not an issue just curious.

Aquarium salt? For reals? Or just advice? I used it in my pond and goldfish tank all those years ago, is it something discus require? If yes where can I buy in bulk, that Petco crap is just that, crap.

Water changes is my hang up. People are doing 100% a week! That is insane to me! I have a Spectrapure 5 stage that does 90gpd, but man, that's an expense. My filter cost and home water costs. Time it takes. Is that a rule? Or can I get away with 50% a month in the form of 15% a week? If I could get it to one or two WC a month then I am for sure in. The sump layout is quite large and I can do anything. Reactors, fluidized sand bed, mechanical, matrix whatever. If not then I'm out and discus won't be for me. I am willing to put in the work, I know it sounds like I'm not, it's mostly just a long term expense I am trying to avoid. Mostly my time divided between a pond, reef, planted tank. I can't be doing water changes everyday all day.

I have fish stock picked out already. Zebra pleco, Angels, Discus, Rummy...shrimps!

I have all the equipment you could ever imagine. All I need is the know how. If you all say don't do it I won't! Any and all advice I am 100% open to.

[Iminit]

Welcome Lola! Sorry to say but we’re talking apples and oranges! Some will tell you that you don’t need water changes. Thing is they’re not around long enough to prove it. As a beginner you’ve got to go with the best method! Bare bottom tanks, minimum 100% water change a week, start with large discus, recommend the sponsors here. Quality foods can be many. Others will join in. Freeze dried black worm and discus chow bought here are great! Sera granules and many quality flakes are also used. Many make their own beef heart mix. I find it way to messy and ifgoing this route you will need to up your water changes . Thing is most long time keeper don’t mind the water changes.

Reefers have come and gone into the discus hobby. What’s up with your water? Many can use tap water on discus.

Wait till you’ve kept discus for a year and have a good understanding about the fish before you jump into plants in discus tanks. In the end plants and discus = more work. I’ve kept planted tanks since the 80s. This is what I do with discus tanks.F2AD0EA3-D18D-43D1-A272-BCCB940AF760.jpg 4FCC8FCD-8081-4956-9D95-96DEE6329703.jpg.

Being a 90g I’d look to turn over about 8x an hour. Is your trigger a salt water sump or fresh water?

Low ph is something of the past. People keep discus from a ph of 6-8 and the common temps are 82-86. Most 82-84.

Zebra plecos maybe later after you’ve got a grip on discus. Angels only if you really don’t want discus! No they don’t go together . Rummies are great as are strebia corys.

Salt is not needed but is used for many problems.

Ok equipment needed. Your 90 and your sump. A heater or a pair of heaters. A qt tank!! 20-40g. This is for all new fish or sick fish. Two are better than one . Everything to get those tanks running in a hurry. All that reef equipment can be sold .

It’s not hard to keep discus but there is dedication needed .

[LizStreithorst]

Sorry, Lola, but Tom is correct. Look at his tank. His is BB with plants in post and driftwood. Easy to keep clean.

There are many good foods out there. Right now, I'm using Al's Blackworms, frozen blood worms and pellets from a different vendor. I'd put beefheart in the rotation as well, if I could find beef heart. But large daily WC's are of great or greater importance. It's not hard if you use pumps.

Good luck. I do hope you decide to try Discus and do what the fish require so you'll have success the first time. Nothing (to me) is much more beatutiful or rewarding than a big tank of happy healthy Discus.

[Overstock Queen]

Then it is not for me. I want a more bio look. But yeah weekly water changes of 100% is just not for me. I think I will give up the dream. My back up plan is a brackish with angels. I have a tank full of plants and a garage full of driftwood, Dragonstone, and Mopani I need to spread the wealth!

Trigger sumps are geared towards reef. However I'm not sure what the difference would be? It's not a trickle.

I'm sort of bummed but I wanted to do it right. One day I will retire then doing massive water changes won't be an issue. Or I might reconsider and set something up to make life easier. Maybe auto water changes...

Here are some tank photos to pay the tax. (At least I think I figured out how to attach photos)



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[LizStreithorst]

Too bad. I do hope you come back at a later time, though.

[brewmaster15]

I will go out on a limb here and say its not entirely impossible to do discus in your 90 gal tank with very conservative water changes. You wont be able to grow things out but 4 adult discus... a few amano shrimp or colony of cherry shrimp.. a few cories could work... it really depends on your goals and set up. I'd hate to see you give up discus without fully exploring it. For instance your reservations on water change frequency you mention expense of R/O water.. you dont need RO water in most cases. What is your water like?

Water changes are a foundation to healthy discus but these are also based on everyones various tank conditions. .Everyones discus benefit from large frequent water changes but the point where water changes are insufficiently being done for a particular tank is different for everyone.

Don't just throw in the towel so soon...maybe with a little more research here and further conversation you can find a plan that may be workable for you.

[Iminit]

Lol sorry to hear you’re not jumping in! Thought you reef keepers had some gumption !! It’s like I always say: anyone can keep a reef but discus takes dedication! Also you do know angels are not brackish fish?

[fljones3]

My understanding is that if you get fully adult discus, water changes are still mandatory but not daily. Also, feeding is less.
I too would not want you to just dismiss the idea.

[brewmaster15]

Lol sorry to hear you’re not jumping in! Thought you reef keepers had some gumption !! It’s like I always say: anyone can keep a reef but discus takes dedication! Also you do know angels are not brackish fish?

Tom are you trying to double dog dare the Op? I may have to double dare you to breed that pair of discus.

Al

[Iminit]

Lol Al I’m still trying and they’re cleaning the pot again. Bet eggs in the morn .

I’m just shocked how many reefers back out of discus. I’ve got no interest but I’m thinking for all the hype reef keeping must be easy! Expensive but easy. I worked with a reefer who had everything on his phone. Everything that was happening in his tank came to him on his phone. He could mix and add water from his phone. Show me tons of stuff he could do but I top him just by pulling up my cameras. All the stuff he had and he never even thought of cameras! It was like the equipment was the whole thing.

[Second Hand Pat]

It's funny that I came from the reefer world to discus. I personally think discus are easier that a reef tank.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

It's funny that I came from the reefer world to discus. I personally think discus are easier that a reef tank.
Pat

Lol.. yep. I started with marine fish, but that was so long ago now we really didnt call ourselves reefers.. ..it was more like.. You bought a bunch of live rock, piled it up in the tank and then bought a bunch of expensive salt water fish which were all wild caught ,often with cyanide. .. everything was low tech. Its so much more different today..but back to then.I dropped marine like a hot potatoe when I got my first discus. Pretty much love at first sight.

AL

[Overstock Queen]

OK! LOL! Yeah my Reef is 9 years old so it's auto pilot.

So I am very lucky. I am friends with the countries leading pleco expert...yeah it's a thing. She used to own a LFS here. She had lots of discus for sale in those days. She used our tap. She told me to stop being stupid and set up the damn tank. So today I went ahead and paid for the tank stand. I'm having one made out of aluminum. One of those fancy strong as a house things.

Water coming into house is 90-110 TDS. PH out of the tap varies but stays relatively consistent at 7.9-8.1. We do not use chlorine or chlorimides here. On rare occasions they have to we get a warning. I would use Prime or Safe to treat water anyway. The hardness of the water is insane though. She assures me this is not an issue. I might use peat in the sump? I don't know.

She suggested no more than 1/2 inch of sand. I might cheat here and use egg crate in the scape for the illusion of depth. We don't do bare bottom around here. We just don't. It will be completely inert. I am growing out some mangroves in my reef tank just for fun. I think I might get them acclimated for fresh water instead and use those in my scape. I am going to use my dragon rock, that I never even looked at just threw in the garage. I got some of those twigs and mopani. I will scape with some Lace Java, rosin maiden crypt, and some flamingo crypt. I also have some petite anubis, like really petite. Also some dwarf hairgrass, that is in no way dwarf as it grows 3 to 5 feet tall. All of these plants are long lived in my other tanks. I won't be using CO2.

I am going to order a python long enough to get to the utility sink. That will make life EASY.

Plans for sump. First chamber, filter cups with poly fill that I will change daily. Then I will use Mattenfilter against the first wall of the sump. And then in front use several layers of Swiss Tropicals foam. Next chamber will be K2. I have never used K2 but it seems a good choice here. I will use one of a million pumps I have laying around to get a nice uniformed roll of the K2. Next sump chamber is a wall that forces water down through media. I will use more layers of Swiss Tropical foam in a finer grade. Last chamber is the return pump. Around the return pump I will use a single layer of ceramic in the long form.

reef.jpg

Lighting is SB Planted.

She suggested I get 6 juveniles from Hans (I don't know who this is). So I guess 6? I will get some shrimps. All my shrimps are all cross bred now, so I will start new with some fun warm water loving scrimps. Will probably do rummynose. Enough to get a nice school/shoul however you say it. A zebra pleco.

I use a heater controller on ALL my tanks. Anyone in this hobby without one is crazy. On this controller will be a 300 watt titanium heater. My home is generator backed up, so if we lose power this system's heater and return pump will still function, all my tanks are on their own breaker. A perk of buying a 120 year old home that needed to be updated. Allows you to add crap like that. I will make sure my generator can support another heater and pump. Should not be an issue. I'll have the electrician move that outlet to the tank breaker.

I'm sort of talking out loud here. Anything I missed? Any suggestions, (not barebottom) LOL!

I have oodles of equipment. Just tons. I even have canister filters. However the tank is drilled and rimmed, THICK TWO INCH ALUMINUM FRAME. Custom Brands aquariums build these damn things like tanks. The glass is an inch thick! I don't however have an overflow box yet. Given they don't need a ton of movement I am going to buy one that's rated less than I would reef.

I guess after the stand has shipped and I assembled it, I will start a build thread so you all can watch a fail in real time.

One more thing, a dude in our reef group has discus. He might even be in this forum. If crap goes south, I can rehome to him right quick. NO LOSSES ON MY WATCH DAMMNIT!

[brewmaster15]

OK! LOL! Yeah my Reef is 9 years old so it's auto pilot.

So I am very lucky. I am friends with the countries leading pleco expert...yeah it's a thing. She used to own a LFS here. She had lots of discus for sale in those days. She used our tap. She told me to stop being stupid and set up the damn tank. So today I went ahead and paid for the tank stand. I'm having one made out of aluminum. One of those fancy strong as a house things.

Water coming into house is 90-110 TDS. PH out of the tap varies but stays relatively consistent at 7.9-8.1. We do not use chlorine or chlorimides here. On rare occasions they have to we get a warning. I would use Prime or Safe to treat water anyway. The hardness of the water is insane though. She assures me this is not an issue. I might use peat in the sump? I don't know.

She suggested no more than 1/2 inch of sand. I might cheat here and use egg crate in the scape for the illusion of depth. We don't do bare bottom around here. We just don't. It will be completely inert. I am growing out some mangroves in my reef tank just for fun. I think I might get them acclimated for fresh water instead and use those in my scape. I am going to use my dragon rock, that I never even looked at just threw in the garage. I got some of those twigs and mopani. I will scape with some Lace Java, rosin maiden crypt, and some flamingo crypt. I also have some petite anubis, like really petite. Also some dwarf hairgrass, that is in no way dwarf as it grows 3 to 5 feet tall. All of these plants are long lived in my other tanks. I won't be using CO2.

I am going to order a python long enough to get to the utility sink. That will make life EASY.

Plans for sump. First chamber, filter cups with poly fill that I will change daily. Then I will use Mattenfilter against the first wall of the sump. And then in front use several layers of Swiss Tropicals foam. Next chamber will be K2. I have never used K2 but it seems a good choice here. I will use one of a million pumps I have laying around to get a nice uniformed roll of the K2. Next sump chamber is a wall that forces water down through media. I will use more layers of Swiss Tropical foam in a finer grade. Last chamber is the return pump. Around the return pump I will use a single layer of ceramic in the long form.

reef.jpg

Lighting is SB Planted.

She suggested I get 6 juveniles from Hans (I don't know who this is). So I guess 6? I will get some shrimps. All my shrimps are all cross bred now, so I will start new with some fun warm water loving scrimps. Will probably do rummynose. Enough to get a nice school/shoul however you say it. A zebra pleco.

I use a heater controller on ALL my tanks. Anyone in this hobby without one is crazy. On this controller will be a 300 watt titanium heater. My home is generator backed up, so if we lose power this system's heater and return pump will still function, all my tanks are on their own breaker. A perk of buying a 120 year old home that needed to be updated. Allows you to add crap like that. I will make sure my generator can support another heater and pump. Should not be an issue. I'll have the electrician move that outlet to the tank breaker.

I'm sort of talking out loud here. Anything I missed? Any suggestions, (not barebottom) LOL!

I have oodles of equipment. Just tons. I even have canister filters. However the tank is drilled and rimmed, THICK TWO INCH ALUMINUM FRAME. Custom Brands aquariums build these damn things like tanks. The glass is an inch thick! I don't however have an overflow box yet. Given they don't need a ton of movement I am going to buy one that's rated less than I would reef.

I guess after the stand has shipped and I assembled it, I will start a build thread so you all can watch a fail in real time.

One more thing, a dude in our reef group has discus. He might even be in this forum. If crap goes south, I can rehome to him right quick. NO LOSSES ON MY WATCH DAMMNIT!

I'm glad you will be giving it a go! A few notes

The dragon rock is best used on other tanks..Discus can get skittish , especially when they are dealing with a new owner and training them,..They may scrape themselves on the rock.

Tom can probably help you on the sump questions, I am not qualified there.

Not questioning your pleco expert, I think it cool that she helped you decide to try them, but I'd think twice on the juvies from Hans. Getting his fish is fine, but until you nail down what you will be doing for water changes, I would lean more towards a few adult discus. Hans...https://discusfishstore.com/ Great Guy and been in the hobby a really long time. We also have a great group of sponsors here.


You may want to check out this video...



I am told its been helpful to others.. warning, its LOONNNNGG.

[Overstock Queen]

I was thinking 100% a week. This is because if I can use tap water it will be easy to fit it in to my normal daily schedule. The hang up was having to make water and all that jazz. OK so the rock stays in the garage. Maybe the twigs too. The wood is pretty awesome and no sharp edges. I just need something to stick the plants to. I don't watch anything from Joey. I don't want to start anything but he is the last place I am willing to take advice from.