Convince me barebottom can look great

[Raul-7]

Raul nobody is telling you how to do it. Yes there are many options! But in the end it’s what you want to do. My advice is learn the fish first. Learn how to take care of discus. Than if you’re ready to try more go for it.

Thank you.

I understand that husbandry is of primary importance. Trust me I've learned the hard way with Hypancistrus sp.


But I'm much better now. With the advent of the Apex - it's made husbandry almost on auto-pilot.

Tom summarized it perfectly. Its far easier to learn how to care for the fish first in a bare bottom tank where the parameters are easy to control .Then if you want to try jazzing your tank up.. go for it. From all our discussions so far its clear you have a certain look you want and a certain ethos you believe in. Its not that you cant have those things but You should really learn from the forum members here what definitely works ..use it as your starting point.
Al

I understand where you are coming from, I do not disregard any advice given to me. But I have bred Hypancistrus sp. before and know the importance of water quality, parameters, water changes, temperature, etc.

Trust me, I'm not the kind to cut corners. My Discus setup will have UV, auto-waterchanges, sump, redundancy, etc. I picked up a lot of that from being on Reef forums. Shortcuts can only take you so far.

[Iminit]

Apex?? What is the Apex? This isn’t some auto drip water changer is it?

[Iminit]

Discus are so far from reefs! Automated systems don’t work . Ask all the reefkeepers who gave up on discus! Live and learn .

[Raul-7]

Apex?? What is the Apex? This isn’t some auto drip water changer is it?

Discus are so far from reefs! Automated systems don’t work . Ask all the reefkeepers who gave up on discus! Live and learn .

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/apex-...e-systems.html

They do work. I had everything automated; including lightning, return pump, UV sterilizer, oxygenation pump, water changes, RO unit, etc. Minimizes the amount of mistakes you can make.

Apex is used by many commercial operations. It's track record speaks for itself.

I'd never setup another large aquarium without one.

[Iminit]

Raul give it a try! Or sell all the automated stuff and do it correctly. Yea it works for reefs. But if someone had succeeded don’t you think everyone would be using them? You’re not the first to fall down this “oh I’ve got reef equipment” path. Discus take hands on time.

[Sandip]

Thank you.

I understand that husbandry is of primary importance. Trust me I've learned the hard way with Hypancistrus sp.


But I'm much better now. With the advent of the Apex - it's made husbandry almost on auto-pilot.



I understand where you are coming from, I do not disregard any advice given to me. But I have bred Hypancistrus sp. before and know the importance of water quality, parameters, water changes, temperature, etc.

Trust me, I'm not the kind to cut corners. My Discus setup will have UV, auto-waterchanges, sump, redundancy, etc. I picked up a lot of that from being on Reef forums. Shortcuts can only take you so far.

I use Apex El, for controlling almost everything except water changes. To be honest, APEX does not add much value in a discus only tank. I used it, because I had it laying around from my reef days.
The automated water change using a apex doser is slow and makes things way too complicated. Just a bucket, siphon and 15 minutes of your time is all you need to change water. Ok maybe a barrel to store water. But you get the picture.
BTW, discus and reef tanks are completely different and just because one is competent with reef has got nothing to do with keeping discus.

[Raul-7]

Raul give it a try! Or sell all the automated stuff and do it correctly. Yea it works for reefs. But if someone had succeeded don’t you think everyone would be using them? You’re not the first to fall down this “oh I’ve got reef equipment” path. Discus take hands on time.

Having automation does not make someone an expert at husbandry. It makes your life easier. Why should I use a python to change the water; when pumps can do the same job in less time? Why not automate?

Plenty of people use an Apex, the company has been around for 25 years. It's just most people in the FW hobby are cheap [nothing against it].

I use Apex El, for controlling almost everything except water changes. To be honest, APEX does not add much value in a discus only tank. I used it, because I had it laying around from my reef days.
The automated water change using a apex doser is slow and makes things way too complicated. Just a bucket, siphon and 15 minutes of your time is all you need to change water. Ok maybe a barrel to store water. But you get the picture.
BTW, discus and reef tanks are completely different and just because one is competent with reef has got nothing to do with keeping discus.

I never kept reefs, BTW.

But my point is that compared to FW - they do not cut corners [or only a minority do]. They go all out on equipment. I like that mindset. I like redundancy and over-filtration.

So I learned to do it right the first time; rather than make mistakes.

I had automated WCs using an Apex. If done via pumps - it much faster and hands free. Now I'm not suggesting everyone go out and buy an Apex. But it does a lot of things right. And can make your life easier.

I never claimed it was a solution to poor husbandry. You still have to watch for disease, water testing and feeding. But having an Apex makes life much easier.

[brewmaster15]

Look, I dont know why things are made so much more difficult than they have to be. You don't need expensive cutting edge equipment to keep discus well. I know no one here has said you need high tech...im just re-affirming that you don't.

Tank ..water..heater.. quality food mechanical filter...biofilter. .. healthy fish.

A simple fish tank with air driven sponges and heaters works.

If a hobbyists want to automate, monitor etc go for it.. if it helps you give the fish plenty of good clean water, appropriate food and water temp etc. AWESOME.. Have fun.


Im an old dinosaur.. air driven sponge filters... aquaclear hang on the back filters for my bigger tanks. The only thing high tech about my discus keeping is my eyes.

High tech may be great for one big tank but many of us have alot iof tanks...not practical for high tech .

Theres a saying we have in the hobby.. KISS.

Keep it simple stupid.

If you meet the fishes needs by what ever method you choose you will do well with discus.. if you don't.... start at the basics until you get it right.

[Raul-7]

Look, I dont know why things are made so much more difficult than they have to be. You don't need expensive cutting edge equipment to keep discus well. I know no one here has said you need high tech...im just re-affirming that you don't.

Tank ..water..heater.. quality food mechanical filter...biofilter. .. healthy fish.

A simple fish tank with air driven sponges and heaters works.

If a hobbyists want to automate, monitor etc go for it.. if it helps you give the fish plenty of good clean water, appropriate food and water temp etc. AWESOME.. Have fun.


Im an old dinosaur.. air driven sponge filters... aquaclear hang on the back filters for my bigger tanks. The only thing high tech about my discus keeping is my eyes.

High tech may be great for one big tank but many of us have alot iof tanks...not practical for high tech .

Theres a saying we have in the hobby.. KISS.

Keep it simple stupid.

If you meet the fishes needs by what ever method you choose you will do well with discus.. if you don't.... start at the basics until you get it right.

I completely understand. The beauty of the hobby is that there's room for everyone.

I never forced my methodology upon anyone, but at the same time I should not be called out for wanting to automate. I was merely giving an alternative viewpoint on how equipment can help.


KISS is definitely agreeable, in fact when troubleshooting we always start with the basics. But automation helps by not only controlling and minimizing mistakes. But more importantly, it keeps logs of all the changes that occurred within a 24 hour period and sends alarms/notifications when parameters go south [like temperature for example].

[Sandip]

Having automation does not make someone an expert at husbandry. It makes your life easier. Why should I use a python to change the water; when pumps can do the same job in less time? Why not automate?

Plenty of people use an Apex, the company has been around for 25 years. It's just most people in the FW hobby are cheap [nothing against it].



I never kept reefs, BTW.

But my point is that compared to FW - they do not cut corners [or only a minority do]. They go all out on equipment. I like that mindset. I like redundancy and over-filtration.

So I learned to do it right the first time; rather than make mistakes.

I had automated WCs using an Apex. If done via pumps - it much faster and hands free. Now I'm not suggesting everyone go out and buy an Apex. But it does a lot of things right. And can make your life easier.

I never claimed it was a solution to poor husbandry. You still have to watch for disease, water testing and feeding. But having an Apex makes life much easier.

I would say if you can do it... go with it. I am a mix of both worlds myself. As long as these help you in keeping clean water and stable parameters. I use some of these equipments myself partly because I already have them and partly because I like using them. I love continuous monitoring of temp and pH and the fact that I can monitor my tank from a 1000 miles away. I am aware that most of them are an overkill for keeping discus.
I am jealous that you have setup an automated water change system using pumps. I wish I had the necessary plumbing setup to do that. Someday!
Share some pictures of your setup please.

[farebox]

We all live in a high-tech world now and people rely on automation to do things. I'm an old fart and have been keeping freshwater fish for a very long time and doing things I've learned through the years by just doing simple things will keep my fish alive and healthy. Discus are not complicated to keep, just follow some very simple basic rules, and whoa!

[Charlyc11]

One of my PBR customers is usen a Felix KIT for fresh water. Expensive

https://www.felixsmart.com/pages/kits

KAI.jpg

[brewmaster15]

People really can go overboard with tech.... and sadly it probably doesnt keep their fish any healthier or more long lived than the diligent hobbyist doing regular water changes, feeding good food ,and practicing informed common sense fish keeping. I get it but lets be honest... these over the top tech tanks are the keepers true hobby. Keeping the fish is just an excuse for many of them to pursue tech tanks... in my opinion .

[Charlyc11]

People really can go overboard with tech.... and sadly it probably doesnt keep their fish any healthier or more long lived than the diligent hobbyist doing regular water changes, feeding good food ,and practicing informed common sense fish keeping. I get it but lets be honest... these over the top tech tanks are the keepers true hobby. Keeping the fish is just an excuse for many of them to pursue tech tanks... in my opinion .

He uses that unit for his L046 zebras in a tank with 18. I have 10 in my 125 and they are thriving but do spend a lot of time in their caves..

L046.jpg

[Willie]

Raul give it a try! Or sell all the automated stuff and do it correctly....

I'm with Tom on this one. When someone starts a conversation with me about "I've been keeping reef tanks for decades and I love to try discus...", my heart just sinks. Reef tanks and discus tanks are complete opposites. Once you set up a reef tank, success depends on leaving it alone and just looking at it. Discus requires huge feedings followed by huge cleanings. It's like raising hogs; slop them down, hose it out, repeat. Automation doesn't lend itself to the latter. Discus is not an ideal species unless you can commit a lot of time.

There's also a key philosophical point. I spend ALL my money on the fish - getting the best quality stock. Back when Kenny was selling, I only purchase his premium, show quality fish. When I buy from Simply sponsors, I gladly waive the SD discount so they send me the best fish from their tanks. If I'm going to do all this work to raise discus, I will start with the best stock. I put them into old, used, often beat up, tanks with a heater and a sponge filter to produce spectacular beautiful discus tanks.